J. Murdock
Episode 148

Narrator: Welcome, friends, to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey. Welcome, friends, to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. I am absolutely delighted to have this guest today, not because I've known them for decades, but because they're going to be pretty interesting, and I think you're going to enjoy hearing their stories. If you're brand new to the podcast, we have a 100 questions. They become more vulnerable, more open closer to 100, they bounce stories and experiences that shaped this person into the leader that they are today. I'm going to begin first 10. Then they're going to choose a number, and we'll see where we go. Could you tell us your name and does anybody ever mispronounce it?

J. Murdock: My name is J. Murdock. My first name's real easy. It's just a letter J, so it's pretty hard to mispronounce that one. I don't anybody [inaudible 00:01:00]-

Japhet De Oliveira: With a little period? A full stop, or-

J. Murdock: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Full stop.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

J. Murdock: Yeah

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. Yeah. Not hard. Not hard. Murdock, do they spell it correctly?

J. Murdock: It's harder because usually you get the popular version or the rich version is D-O-C-H, and I'm D-O-C-K. They make the right noise, but not always the right spelling.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. That's good. J., what do you do for work?

J. Murdock: I am the senior chaplain for Adventist Health Clear Lake.

Japhet De Oliveira: What does that mean?

J. Murdock: I, for the most part, spend a lot of time in patient rooms making sure that our patients have the emotional and spiritual support that they need while they go through their hospitalization, but I also extend out to associates and providers.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's fantastic. You've been doing this long?

J. Murdock: No. I started January of '23, so still fairly new to this.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Hey, that's fantastic. How did you end up deciding to going to chaplaincy?

J. Murdock: For me, it's more of a vocational thing. It was a call rather than a wandering in on my own. A couple of different opportunities popped up, and chaplaincy was always one of those things that I was pretty staunchly against just because it's not really my strong suit, the identity of the pastor as a visiting pastor. Youth pastors don't typically get the opportunity to visit all that often, so I was not well versed in visitation, but now it's what I do for a living.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's your thing.

J. Murdock: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

J. Murdock: Very much a calling.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. You enjoy it a lot?

J. Murdock: Very.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's what I've understood.

J. Murdock: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: People talk about it and say that you're actually rather exceptional with it, so that's great.

J. Murdock: That's a big compliment.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's great. That's great. Tell me, J., when you get up in the morning, first drink the day. Do you have water? Coffee? Liquid green smoothie? Where do you go?

J. Murdock: Coffee all day.

Japhet De Oliveira: Coffee all day?

J. Murdock: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: How do you have your coffee?

J. Murdock: I once was told I drink coffee like frog water because it's heavy on sugar-free creamer. It's definitely like a muddy version of coffee.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Hey, that's good. Where were you born?

J. Murdock: I was born in Merced, California, Central Valley.

Japhet De Oliveira: Did you grow up there?

J. Murdock: I did. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. When you were a child growing up there, what did you imagine you would grow up to be?

J. Murdock: So many.

Japhet De Oliveira: A chaplain?

J. Murdock: Oh, yeah. I knew it called [inaudible 00:03:12]. No, I was going to play in the Major Leagues. I was going to be a baseball player for a long time.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really? Okay.

J. Murdock: Then when I realized that probably wasn't in my athletic build, genetics, the plan was to become a lawyer. That was pretty much the case right up until high school.

Japhet De Oliveira: Baseball to lawyer.

J. Murdock: Right. Yeah. A straight line.

Japhet De Oliveira: Both of them involve a bat I guess at some point.

J. Murdock: True. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: What made the switch at high school for you?

J. Murdock: I was really keen on the idea of going to UCLA, and when you apply and they tell you, "No, thank you," it makes it pretty easy to make an adjustment. I went to Cal State Fresno. I really enjoyed writing, and so I started out in mass communication. Then one of the biggest things that will mess people up is meeting Jesus, which is right around the time I did. I was around 18 years old and felt like maybe there's something else here. The idea of law and the idea of doing something that's active came together, and I was given the opportunity to become a youth pastor for a church in Fresno. They took a chance on me being a newcomer, and I actually got to work with the middle schoolers there. That just turned everything towards ministry.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's fantastic, J. Beautiful. Hey, tell me, are you an early riser or late night owl?

J. Murdock: Late night owl. 

Japhet De Oliveira: What's late night for you?

J. Murdock: It could be 11:00.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

J. Murdock: Midnight calling it a day.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right.

J. Murdock: I work odd hours too.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

J. Murdock: Just because if you're providing patient care, some people are asleep all day and they're actually awake during the night. You have a night shift over at the hospital, and those people and associates need your care too, so I find myself on off shifts too.

Japhet De Oliveira: I've got to ask for somebody who has to work odd hours, a lot of healthcare professionals do this, how do you adjust and make sure you have equilibrium?

J. Murdock: I don't know that I do, but I think I've stopped working around the idea of equilibrium being a necessity. Sometimes you're just doing things sideways and backwards and piecing it together. I just assume at some point it'll come out in the wash like, "Well, hey, this weekend we'll recover. We'll do something a little different." Yeah. It's a day by day.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good man. That is good. All right. Let me go to personality. Are you an extrovert or an introvert? If people described you, would you agree with them?

J. Murdock: I am absolutely an introvert. People would describe me as an extrovert, and I disagree because I play one on TV basically. I find myself in places where I can be extroverted, but by the definition I do not receive energy from spending a lot of time with people.

Japhet De Oliveira: No. I've got to ask, and I'm going to share this with people because I don't know if it'll come up in the podcast, but I know that you have started many times different improv community groups, but you're an introvert.

J. Murdock: Truly.

Japhet De Oliveira: Explain how introvert does improv?

J. Murdock: The idea being... My rendition of improv is built around community. How do we bring people together to do something meaningful that they can build relationships around? And not just in singular ways, improv gives you the ability to play different characters in different spaces all just using your imagination. In teaching somebody how to do something, I know that I am not equipped to be it all the time, but I know I can help equip you to become it as you need it. A lot of improv performers start out as introverts. They're the ones who are like, "I don't get out very often. My friends tell me I need to do something about that, and so I found you guys. I'm here to ask for help." It helps to be one of them to teach them how to live in a world that for the most part is not us. It's mostly extroverts.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. That's great. I've never put those two together, but it makes entire sense there. First thought that went through your mind this morning when you woke up late?

J. Murdock: I woke up early. That was the... I think that was the hard part is my first thought was, "Ah," just because it's an early start. I'm from Lake County, so I got here last night. But really exciting, I got to have coffee with you this morning. I think that was my first thought is I'm going to start my day with coffee like I'm supposed to, and I get to see my good friend Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. Hey, brilliant. Here's a leadership question, and then I'm going to hand over to you. Are you a backseat driver?

J. Murdock: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

J. Murdock: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Great. Categorically. Yeah.

J. Murdock: Categorically, but my rendition of backseat driving has a spiritual element to it. I'm not necessarily an out loud backseat driver. I won't be the person to tell you what you're doing, but you know how Jesus talks about this idea of if you did it in your heart, you did it anyways. I'm doing into my heart all day, judging and just being uncomfortable but biting my tongue, but I know I'm doing it.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. It's honest. It's honest. I was like, "Maybe you should take some time to think about that."

J. Murdock: No. No, no, no.

Japhet De Oliveira: But no, you had the answer. All right. Hey, that's great. Well, the floor's open, J. Where would you like to go between 11 and 100?

J. Murdock: Let's start number 13.

Japhet De Oliveira: 13. All right. Walk us through the ideal end of your day?

J. Murdock: Man. I find I get to drive 30 minutes on my way home from the hospital, and that end still feels like work in a lot of ways because I've got to process through everything that has just taken place. I'm in a lot of different rooms. Sometimes somebody's having the best day of their life, they're having a baby, we get to celebrate that. Some people just found out it might be one of their last days. I actually just started as the hospice chaplain.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

J. Murdock: I spend time with people who are actively dying, and you have conversations about their identity of hope and what it looks like. It's the same hope as somebody in the hospital who's hoping to get up and get out of this space. But what's exciting is being able to process through that, and then setting it aside and being able to disconnect from the work that I do so that I'm more prepared to do it to tomorrow. Really anything that is not chaplain related. I love that I get to do it, but I don't love doing it all the time. Spending time with my girlfriend has been really great, and just making sure that I'm surrounding myself with people who understand that and are willing to do that with me. That's the best way to end it.

Japhet De Oliveira: For our listeners, and you just know also that my late wife, before she passed away, you were actually the youth pastor at the church and connected with our kids. She loved you because of your ability to... This is before you were chaplain, how you visited her and took care of the family. She spoke highly, highly about you and-

J. Murdock: What a compliment.

Japhet De Oliveira: You're very gifted at it, so it's interesting how you think about your end of your day as well in combination. But yeah, that's good. Good. All right, J., that was 13. Where next?

J. Murdock: Let's do 22.

Japhet De Oliveira: 22. If you could be anywhere right now, where would you be?

J. Murdock: Man, I don't have the wanderlust that a lot of people have. When my mind goes to places, it's not necessarily like, "I'd go to Bali," or, "I'd go somewhere exotic." If I could be anywhere it is the weather here today, so it's mid-September. This feels like the place that I'd want to be in this climate. Whatever has this all the time, instead of the blistering heat that we have in Lake County, just as a temporary reprieve. Somewhere out in the mountains sitting by a lake. Maybe I hike to get to that location, and I get to just kick back and enjoy nature and some time. That's the best place to land.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, come back next week because the blistering heat's coming back here. It's a great day today. All right. Where next?

J. Murdock: Let's do 31.

Japhet De Oliveira: 31. Tell us about someone you'd love to eat dinner with? Anyone. Sky's the limit.

J. Murdock: Sky's the limit.

Japhet De Oliveira: Past. Present.

J. Murdock: There are so many people you feel like you can glean something from, but the intimidation factor allows you to think like, "Yeah. But would I really ask them that question?" I think a lot of people talk about like, "Well, when I get to heaven I'm going to stick my finger in Jesus's chest, and I'm going to tell them to explain this and this," but we realize that's not necessarily how we would do it. I think for me it would have to be somebody who I feel like I could be comfortable with in order to have that type of conversation. Oddly enough, I'm going to pick somebody who doesn't fit this category necessarily.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

J. Murdock: If I could pick anybody to have dinner with I'd pick my own dad, and I'd have the courage to ask him some of the questions I don't think I've had the bravery to do. Of just like the, "What would it take for me to get to that place?" If we both knew we were sitting down to have that chat, I think that'd be the type of dinner I'd like to get involved with and have the energy for.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's beautiful. Thank you. Good reminder for a lot of people.

J. Murdock: Sure.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. We're next?

J. Murdock: Let's do 40... Let's do 40.

Japhet De Oliveira: 40. All right. Tell us about a time you failed?

J. Murdock: Oh, man. Lots of failures. So many good failures.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. That's a great phrase. Good failures. It's true.

J. Murdock: Good failures.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

J. Murdock: Because you can fail up and you can fail down, and it teaches you something either direction. I know that the identity of failure usually comes with this belief of what your expectation was versus the outcome, but something that I've found more often than not is that is where my faith has grown. My failure to achieve a master's degree on the first round. My original intention was to get hired, to be sent to Andrews University to pick up a master's degree. I started, and then I made the mistake of meeting you. For the listeners at home, I'm pointing at Japhet because we worked together and he was like, "Hey, man. I know you just got here to start this career in student learning. Would you like to move?

Japhet De Oliveira: And pause?

J. Murdock: I did. Then the opportunity came back around a year and a half later where the conference said, "We'd like you to go get it." I was like, "Great, let's go finish it." I got 15 16ths the way through and just found myself in these start/stop moments. That failure to not get the master's degree all in one go actually culminated this past year. It took me 10 years to do it almost to the day. That failure was devastating because it's much harder to get back into-

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

J. Murdock: ... books and reading and applying yourself in ways and learning Hebrew. All of those different atmospheres that you live within has taught me so much. It has taught me patience. It has taught me understanding. It has taught me what I'm made of, and in ways that I'm very uncomfortable with but also extremely proud of. But I think one of the hardest ones is a 10-year structure of not getting it done would be considered a failure right up until it was a success.

Japhet De Oliveira: But to your credit, the reason why you didn't get it done so quickly wasn't because you couldn't do it-

Japhet De Oliveira: ... it was you were just in demand everywhere always.

J. Murdock: It's a weird-

Japhet De Oliveira: Someone needs you.

J. Murdock: Yeah. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

J. Murdock: Sometimes you take the call, and you figure out where you're going to move the Spirit.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Well done for that adventure.

J. Murdock: Thanks.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. All right. That was 40. Where next?

J. Murdock: 55.

Japhet De Oliveira: 55. Share about something that frightens you?

J. Murdock: Oh, man. My health is the thing that scares me the most I've found.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right.

J. Murdock: I have the unfortunate reality that my genetic code is not built to have a healthy heart. My sister, who was born two years before I was, she died of infant heart failure. Three years ago I had a heart attack myself, which was very quickly, in my estimation, followed up with a second one a year later. Because of it there's a slew of medications that I take, there's a regimented diet, there's specific things that you have to do in order to basically stave off the next one because the doctors and the providers that I work with are basically saying, "This might be the thing that kills you unless something gets to a first. Let's try and do whatever we can to make sure it doesn't happen sooner rather than later." I live in a pretty consistent fear of the what if? And if this doesn't work or if this changes or if I'm not careful about this am I going to find myself in an ICU room again soon? I think that's the fear that I live with one a regular back of my head, always talking to me thing.

Japhet De Oliveira: What is the most surprising... This is a bonus question, what is the most surprising change that you've done in your life as a result of discovering this?

J. Murdock: All of it because you live life on this trajectory where, as a youth pastor, you get into some fun stuff and you do some things, but now I find myself wondering where's the closest hospital to where I'm going to be? We have a mutual friend who invited me to be a part of an ultra marathon that was out in the middle of nowhere, and it was shortly after my first heart attack. I was to that identity of fear.

The question was like, "If I go down while I'm out there can a helicopter get to me?" Right now in my pocket I have a keychain that is proof of the fact that I have helicopter insurance just in case. I live in a very small county and we don't have a cath lab at the hospital that I work at. My CEO at the time when I first got to Clear Lake, we had a town hall meeting. She said in no uncertain terms that if you have a heart attack in Lake County and you are not inside one of our hospitals, you're likely a goner. I have never sweat through a shirt faster because I was like, "That's me."

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Yeah.

J. Murdock: Just the changes of the things you have to do to be preventative and precautionary are surprising to me.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's a different way of life.

J. Murdock: Totally.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. All right. Where next?

J. Murdock: Let's do 62.

Japhet De Oliveira: 62. This is perfect for you. What does a sense of community mean to you?

J. Murdock: Oh, man. It's multifaceted. You and I have both built communities together where we have dreamed up what the vision of what this community could look like. The improv community was the idea of building better relationships for people to harbor who they are and who they would like to be altogether. I just recently moved to Clear Lake and trying to find out what community looks like and to be able to see it in this new way. The family atmosphere of Lake County is so wonderful because everyone knows everyone, and that has its downfalls because everybody's also in your business and you are in their business. But you cannot talk to somebody who you don't know, not only their first name, you know who they're related to and their nickname and where they grew up.

When somebody comes into our hospital it's not just a patient, it's somebody's neighbor, and you're doing chest compressions on them. She used to teach my piano class, and now she's teaching my kids. It's this fully ingrained... You feel like you're a part of a family line. Community to me right now is the idea that you can really get draped in your own understanding of who you are, but you are also shaped and developed by the community around you. I find myself in constant development being willing to lean into that. As an introvert that's hard because you have to put yourself out there. But when you do it with the right community, it's a really soft place to land. Community right now is my soft place.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's a beautiful description.

J. Murdock: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: I like that. Brilliant. All right. Where next, sir?

J. Murdock: Let's do 73.

Japhet De Oliveira: 73. All right. Share something that you've had to unlearn in your life?

J. Murdock: Oh, so many things, man.

Japhet De Oliveira: We all do.

J. Murdock: Yeah. Chaplaincy really does create the opportunity for that. I really figured out what it looked like to become a pastor. I had 11 years of training to become a pastor and the identity of chaplaincy and the belief that it's all ministry is accurate in as much as it is false in that as a pastor your goal is to point people in the right direction. Somebody comes to you and says, "Pastor, I'm going through this thing." You point them towards scripture. You point them towards Jesus. You point them towards this identity of prayer life to really bulk up their spiritual life. When you become a chaplain you stop pointing, and you just exist with them. How do I spend time with you and allow them to be the living human document? How do we open that book together? Don't let me read your story for you. Don't let them get too far behind where you are. Stay present in that moment. The idea of casting vision and casting mission, all of those things are always looking down the road. Chaplaincy has forced me to stay in the moment.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great.

J. Murdock: The unlearning is so, so difficult because I love looking ahead. I love being able to cast vision, but when you're in a room with a patient all that matters is right now. Just unlearning how to get not just to a place where you're not ahead of them-

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

J. Murdock: ... but to stay with them in this time is really tough to do.

Japhet De Oliveira: That is actually probably one of the most important things that patients need. Right?

J. Murdock: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: They need someone just to be present with them.

J. Murdock: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

J. Murdock: It's nuts too. Not a lot of people do that. That's the utility of a chaplain.

Japhet De Oliveira: We're trying to fox them.

J. Murdock: You're trying to fix them or you're somehow connected to it. A patient to you and says, "I've been really struggling with my mental health lately, and I've been thinking about killing myself." Many people in their life will go, "No, no, no. Hey, wait, wait, wait. There's this. There's this. There's this." It's the opportunity to help them shift that pointing to point them towards a better day. The chaplain, on the other hand, just gets to go, "Talk to me about it. What's the feeling that you have when you just said that?" Like, "It makes me feel this."

"Let's explore that. Let's explore that feeling," and nobody else in their world gets to do it because I have the ability to stand outside of it, but also stay present with you in it. That duality is a really beautiful place. People will walk you into very deep dark pits. If you're willing to go with them and sit with them in the pit it might be the first time they ever get to do it, and because of it they might actually find the courage and the endurance and the strength to walk themselves out of it. Not because of my work, but because they actually got to see where the depth is. Now that they've seen it's time to go somewhere else.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good. That's really good. It's like you've done this.

J. Murdock: Almost.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, where next then J.?

J. Murdock: What did I just do? What was my number? I'm in the seventies?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes.

J. Murdock: Let's click a little bit higher. Let's go 79.

Japhet De Oliveira: 79. Share a painful memory, if you wish, one that you could forget?

J. Murdock: That I want to forget?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

J. Murdock: There's the idea of wanting to forget something I think is the complication to that in that all of the things we do... We talked about with the failure of that it teaches you something. I know that there are many things that get in the way of my relationships. I talked about if I could have dinner with anybody it'd be my dad, and I'd be intentional about it. I think one of the reasons why I don't have the courage to ask those questions is because I have a memory of what it was like as a child to be able to think that my dad was doing what he could. He knew what he knew from his parents who taught him, and we've got to figure out how to be the best version of ourselves. He did a really great version with what he had to work with. But some of those things that I wish I could forget are often the times where the clamps come down on the like, "Oh, man, that one really stirs up some things."

My dad wasn't a violent person, he wasn't an abusive person, but he was an angry guy. When he was that angry guy, sometimes you would find yourself becoming more and more distant. That distance, if it's not closed, becomes more distant. I'm 38 as I sit here, I'm still trying to close some of that distance. I think some of those memories, I don't know that one necessarily comes to mind, but he had a fast flare temper. Certain things would come up, and he would be disappointed or it wouldn't go the way he'd want it to go. Then just get super mad and the volume would go way, way up. In those times, especially young, I would power down. There's so much energy in this space, I've got a lower mine. I think if I didn't remember that I might be more available to have those conversations with him, but I think there's that little bit of I don't want to say PTSD because that would-

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

J. Murdock: ... be the wrong diagnosis. But just the belief that if I do this and it doesn't go well, is that going to awake this childhood monster that still lives in my imaginary bed? Maybe I'd like to forget that. To have the ability to look past it, to do the next thing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Creating boundaries is not easy.

J. Murdock: Right.

Japhet De Oliveira: Right? How do you dissolve a boundary when it's needed?

J. Murdock: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

J. Murdock: Especially when you put it there.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Even better there.

J. Murdock: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: What advice would you give?

J. Murdock: For me, I will look at it through the lens of faith. Faith is the belief in the things unseen, but the willingness to look for them believing that you'll find something. I think for faith-based endeavors you find yourself looking for something like God. If you go looking as if it's something scattered on the beach, you'll pick everything up, and you'll look underneath it, and you'll be like, "This is not God." You're like, "Okay. Well, I'll pick up the next thing." You keep doing that over and over again, you'll find yourself being discouraged because so many things are not God when you're looking for them by label, but the idea of faith is that one of these times you're going to find it. More often than not, God finds you. It's when you're least expecting it, and it's in ways you probably are uncomfortable with.

The idea of there being this boundary that I've placed, the goal was to make sure there was a distance, but faith bridges that gap, which is why it's so helpful and so scary all at the same time because you're going to find out what you are made of. Faith will allow you to go further than you thought, deeper than you thought. A boundary is often keeping you from that. For me, sometimes a boundary is a lack of faith. I don't mean that in-

Japhet De Oliveira: I know. I know.

J. Murdock: For everybody listening to this, I mean in my world. My boundary is saying, "I don't think I want to put my faith in that going well-

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

J. Murdock: ... or this relationship developing the way I want it to or I'm going to get hurt. But what if I had more faith that something good was on the other end of it and I've simply closed it off?" My dissolution is to lean into faith.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. That's good. That's really good. Sage wisdom. We have time. Can you believe? But just two more numbers.

J. Murdock: Okay.

Japhet De Oliveira: Last two?

J. Murdock: Let's do 85.

Japhet De Oliveira: 85. All right. Describe a role model you aspire to be a like?

J. Murdock: Oh my gosh. I'm sitting in front of him right now. Japhet De Oliveira. No, this has nothing to do with the context. I mentioned before every pastor gets to figure out what they're good at, and what you develop is who you become. As I've worked my way into Adventism because I was not raised in this church and then I became somebody who helped out with youth. I was taught underneath really great youth pastors who stepped me into these different places. I find myself leaning on the things that you taught me of like, "How can I do this well? How can I do this better? How can I do this in a way that somebody is going to care that I did it? Because it needs to affect their life in a positive way. If it's not, then what are we doing?"

You've always challenged me in that, when we worked at Boulder Church, if there's no one here to do this ministry, then we close it down. I always thought to myself. No. No, no, no. That's not it because somebody will show up and somebody will do this thing, but there's only a finite amount of energy. There's a finite amount of time. Are we keeping somebody from doing the thing that they are built to do by trying to plug this hole that we don't need in the wall? Sometimes it's time to migrate over in a way. That's walked me into a lot of these places. You beat me to Adventist Health, you got here and it was just one of those like, "Man, I'm going to really miss that."

Walking in your wake and working within someone else's legacy is such a big daunting task, but you leave the space in your ministry to let people do that. To build them up as you are built up so that there's always room for other people. I think that's one of the things that I have built around my identity of mentorship, which I feel unequipped to do. More often than not I feel like even at 38 years old, I'm still like, "Yeah. But because I still need a mentor, how am I supposed to mentor the next group?" At some point you have this awakening of like, "It's your turn, it's your time. Why don't you go ahead and step up?" It's just like, "Well, what have I learned?" I go back to the mentors who have taught me. Man, make space on your shoulder so that they can see further than you could from your vantage point. That's something you taught me.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's very you, J. I will say this though forever to hear that my privilege is that I got to see when you were very young and saw this incredible gift that I think that God has given you. It's just wonderful to see them come... You developing them, and living into all of your potential and more. As I said, you've touched my own personal family's life, but so many, so many, you are loved everywhere. You're a good man for that, J.

J. Murdock: I appreciate that.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. No, it's good.

J. Murdock: It's a privilege.

Japhet De Oliveira: Brother. We're on our final one. Where's your final number?

J. Murdock: Let's do 93.

Japhet De Oliveira: 93. Paint us a picture of success?

J. Murdock: Okay. Let's take the art route to this. Success, in my mind growing up was if we take art. It's the idea of it's lucrative. People want it hung up in their house. It's in a museum. It's a part of some art show. It's got the right signature at the bottom. I think I've come to learn that success is finger painting in a lot of ways. In that it is somebody's best effort to put meaning and color and shape. In a lot of ways from close up it looks like one thing, but from further away it looks like something else. Success in my world. Knowing that, like I said, the doctors who are working with me are saying things like, "We don't know how much longer you've got," has shaped the here and the now of it all. I find myself going, "Yeah. But if only I could learn how to paint like that person or how to do this thing maybe it's not actually in my future."

The success is being an original version of myself, not trying to be somebody else's version of painting. Instead, just trying to walk my own line knowing that, you mentioned it before, but I'm called to do something. I can't always see what the next something is, but right now it's this something. How can I be the most successful version of this and come up with a better, clearer picture of who I am while I do it? Rather than sell out to what I think this would be or... To do what would be a poor mentorship opportunity is to tell people to be more like you. It's actually to be more like yourself. Can you do that successfully? Then I feel like anything you do is going to be considered success, and right now it's just me trying to journey through what that looks like in my own skin.

Japhet De Oliveira: J., that's brilliant. I thank you. Thank you for squeezing the time in on your... I know your shuttle's insane today, so I really appreciate it. I want to encourage everybody to do the same thing. Sit down with a friend, ask good questions, and we discover things about each other and we are always changed. Right? It's good. Thanks so much, J.

J. Murdock: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: Appreciate it so much. God bless everybody, and we will connect soon on another story.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us for The Story & Experience Podcast. We invite you to read, watch, and submit your story and experience at adventisthealth.org/story. The Story & Experience Podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health through the Office of Culture.