Jennifer Swenson
Episode 58

Narrator: Welcome friends to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. Join your host. Japhet De Oliveira with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families, and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, welcome friends to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. I'm very excited about our guest today. Not because I have followed her a lot on Instagram, and Facebook, and LinkedIn, and that she posts some amazing things and amazing experiences, but because she's also a great leader. So the way it works for anybody who's brand new is that we have a hundred questions. We're not going to cover all hundred questions. She's looking at me like, "Oh, we're not going to cover all hundred questions." We're going to cover as many as we have time for. But these questions from zero all the way, one to 100, they progressively become more vulnerable, more open as we go along in the journey. So let's dive straight in and I'm going to ask the first 10, and then I'm going to hand over to our guest where she gets to pick which numbers she wants to go up and down on. Right. First one, really simple. What's your name? And does anybody ever mispronounce it, or spell it, or?

Jennifer Swenson: No. My name is pretty simple. It's Jennifer Swenson and they did make fun of my maiden name, but not my married name.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really? Any chance you'd share your maiden name?

Jennifer Swenson: Ratcliffe.

Japhet De Oliveira: Ah, I don't know how anybody could make fun of that. No creativity with that. That's great. Jennifer, what do you do for work?

Jennifer Swenson: So I actually lead Adventist Health Simi Valley as the president and CEO.

Japhet De Oliveira: Fantastic. How long have you been doing that?

Jennifer Swenson: So I have been here since 2015 and it's been an amazing time here, but I actually worked here before.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh really? What did you do before?

Jennifer Swenson: So I was actually the hospital controller from 2000 to 2004 before I left to take an executive role at one of our other hospitals.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, I've had the privilege to work with several of your team and they all speak really amazing words about the work that you do and the way that you lead, and it's just been fantastic. I think you're creating a really great culture there as well. So, that's great stuff. Hey, with this current role, I'm going to go into some of the simple things here, because the first 10 are very easy. In the morning when you get up, what's your drink of choice? Do you like coffee, tea, water, one of those liquid green smoothies?

Jennifer Swenson: Coffee, hands down, and the way I like my coffee is light and sweet.

Japhet De Oliveira: OK. Hey, that's good. That's good. I understand. I understand. No problem with that. Tell me, where were you born?

Jennifer Swenson: So I was actually born in Rhinelander, Wisconsin.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, I like the way you said that.

Jennifer Swenson: Right? You just go right there, you know?

Japhet De Oliveira: That was just too natural and too quick. Oh good. Have you been back?

Jennifer Swenson: I have been back throughout about, I think the last time I was back in Wisconsin was about 15 years ago.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, OK.

Jennifer Swenson: So it's been a long time.

Japhet De Oliveira: It has been a long time. It's been a long time. When you were kids, what did you imagine you were going to grow up to be?

Jennifer Swenson: Honestly on my bucket list of things to do, being a cash register at the grocery store just seemed like an awesome job.

Japhet De Oliveira: I love that. That's great.

Jennifer Swenson: I actually got to fulfill that dream, so.

Japhet De Oliveira: I think everybody wanted to do that at some point. Especially when we were really young, that was actually really, really great. Oh, that's good. If people were to describe you. Jennifer, personality wise, would they describe you as an extrovert or an introvert and would you agree?

Jennifer Swenson: I think they would describe me as a extrovert and I would agree. I have no problem talking to people and I think one of the symptoms of being an extrovert is the question that always gets asked is, "Oh, after a party, after a large gathering, do you feel energized or do you feel depleted?" I feel energized, I can't go to sleep. So I think I definitely fall into the category of extrovert.

Japhet De Oliveira: So do you make friends really easily? This is not one of the questions. It's just a bonus question.

Jennifer Swenson: Absolutely. I am friends with a lot of people, but I have a very small list of really, really close friends.

Japhet De Oliveira: At the Super Bowl, this is again, another bonus question, but at the Super Bowl, how many new people did you meet and engage with just off stop your head?

Jennifer Swenson: Well, because my husband was wearing ram's horns, that opened a whole other opportunity for people to take pictures with him, which was fun. But definitely the people around us. In front of us, we got to know them. They were actually a group of physicians from Ohio.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh really?

Jennifer Swenson: Of course. That's where I came from, right?

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: Then the team behind us was Ram's fans. So yeah, we got to know those people around us.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. Yeah, I can kind of see that and especially from all the posts as well. It's great. All right. This morning when you woke up, what was the first thought that went through your mind?

Jennifer Swenson: That I get to spend time with you today.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, too kind. I was a minute late getting on and I was like, "Oh man." I felt... Hey, that's really great. That's pretty great. Are you an early rise or a late night owl?

Jennifer Swenson: Yeah, that's a really good question. I tend to wake up early just because of a habit. I like to be up before the kids are up and just have some quiet time, but I do tend to stay up late on occasion. So, I think it's just a matter of the opportunity in front of me. But I think for the most part, I would say that I'm definitely an early morning person.

Japhet De Oliveira: Early morning person. I hear you. I hear you. All right. Here's a leadership question. Are you a back seat driver?

Jennifer Swenson: See, that's just a terrible question to ask me.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's a great question

Jennifer Swenson: Because yeah, I'm a horrible backseat driver in a car.

Japhet De Oliveira: In a car.

Jennifer Swenson: In a car. I just... Yeah. People, I always drive. I always drive for that very reason. When I don't, I have to consciously say, "Let it go. Let it go."

Japhet De Oliveira: Which is hard to do in a car.

Jennifer Swenson: Right, but I think you're referring to leadership in that do I provide direction from the back seat? I do provide direction, but I am not a micromanager. So, I tend to make sure that I've established the guardrails for my team and they can function in that space. But we have conversations that are not scheduled all the time. They'll pop in and say, "Hey, I'm heading this direction. What do you think?" I said, "That's great. Let's go for it." So, I think my management style is a little bit of a non-micromanager, but there are times, when we have to step in and help our teams be successful and I'm willing to do that as well.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's fantastic. Right. So see how easy that was. It was fantastic. We've done the first 10. Now it's your turn to pick between 11 and 100. Where would you like to go?

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go with 21. Because that's a big birthday in Australia.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. All right. It is, it is. Well share the best compliment you've ever received.

Jennifer Swenson: The best compliment I have ever received.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: Wow. That's a hard one.

Japhet De Oliveira: I know it is, and yes.

Jennifer Swenson: I think the best compliment I ever received was when I left an executive position and it was hard to leave because I didn't want to leave. I was moving back west to California for family reasons. I think the best compliment I received is that I was the most engaged, the most compassionate CEO that that hospital had ever had, and I reestablished relationships in the community. To me that's really a reflection on who I am as a person and not only as a leader. So to me, I think that's probably the best compliment that I've received

Japhet De Oliveira: That speaks into your character, and I would agree. Yeah, that's beautiful. Hey, that's great. Good. Where do you want to go after 21? Do you want to go down or do you want to go up on the list?

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go to 25.

Japhet De Oliveira: 25. All right. Share the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.

Jennifer Swenson: The most beautiful thing I have ever seen.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: Wow, that's really hard.

Japhet De Oliveira: This is good. This is good.

Jennifer Swenson: That could be a place, that could be a moment, that could be so many things, Japhet. I think... My dad was a minister and then went into evangelism, and he often would go to the Philippines for evangelistic series. I think I was 21 at the time and he said, "You know what? You need to come with me and see the Philippines and we'll do a little trip." So we went to Hong Kong, China and Thailand in addition to the Philippines and China was my least favorite on that list of places to go. Honestly, it was the most beautiful place I have ever been. We went to a place called Guilin and it's called the artist country. So it's very mountainous, very beautiful, but you almost took a step back in time.

So we were staying at, I think a Holiday Inn and looked out of our window in the morning and in the circle, because everybody rides their bikes, in the circle, they were doing Tai Chi and it was just really-

Japhet De Oliveira: Peaceful.

Jennifer Swenson: People still do this? It was just amazing. It was peaceful. The word serenity comes to my mind. But visually, visually, it was just unbelievably beautiful.

Japhet De Oliveira: It is lovely to go to a place for yourself, right? And not just what people say it is

Jennifer Swenson: Absolutely.

Japhet De Oliveira: To absolutely experience that. That's great. Hey, that's beautiful. All right. So after 25, where next? Up or down?

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go down.

Japhet De Oliveira: OK.

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go to 19.

Japhet De Oliveira: 19. Oh, what's your exercise routine?

Jennifer Swenson: Picking up my coffee cup and putting it down in the morning.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure. Right.

Jennifer Swenson: So-

Japhet De Oliveira: OK. I'm going to try and beat that. Hang on. I've got to pick up a pen. All right.

Jennifer Swenson: Actually, during COVID, I actually got an exercise bike along with probably millions of other people.

Japhet De Oliveira: You did join others, yes.

Jennifer Swenson: It's just hard to find the time, honestly. Especially when you have young kids and you want to spend the time with them because it's so limited anyway. So, when I have the bike in my room, it faces me every morning and it's just that incentive to get on the bike. But, I'll be honest with you Japhet, I hate exercise. I love to be adventurous, right? I have no problem going hiking, swimming, whatever. But to actually just do something on a machine is uninspiring to me.

Japhet De Oliveira: Pointless sometimes. I hear you. I hear you. No worries. Well, thank you for the honesty. That's good. Where'd you want to go after 19?

Jennifer Swenson: OK, 25. So let's do 29.

Japhet De Oliveira: 29, all right. Share three things that make you instantly happy.

Jennifer Swenson: Share three things that make me happy?

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, but instantly.

Jennifer Swenson: Instantly happy.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: Cheez-Its.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great, I love it.

Jennifer Swenson: I'm sorry. I thought I was-

Japhet De Oliveira: That's very divisive, but yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: No, and I bring that up because I thought I had this horrible issue that Cheez-Its were my downfall. If I see a box, I just have to have some, but turns out this is a real thing. I bring it up now with my friends and they're like, "Oh yeah, no, Cheez-Its are my thing too." I'm like, "OK, so it's not just me."

Japhet De Oliveira: No.

Jennifer Swenson: But Cheez-Its make me happy. I think spending time with my family, regardless of where we are, makes me instantly happy. What else? What else makes me instantly happy? I said Cheez-Its, but I think food is love to me. I love food, so creating a meal, making a meal, having my friends around. And my family around my table. That's instant gratification.

Japhet De Oliveira: There are so many stories in the Bible about Jesus breaking bread with people. I understand. Yeah, it's beautiful. There is something about community and food, for sure.

Jennifer Swenson: Right? Because I believe food is love. That's my thing.

Japhet De Oliveira: I would agree. I've seen so many photos of your family that I know that family is very important to you and it is. That's fantastic to see. So brilliant. All right. Where next after 29?

Jennifer Swenson: All right. Well, I think we're going to have to break into the thirties here. Let's go... I've picked a lot of odds, haven't I?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go with 34.

Japhet De Oliveira: 34. All right. Tell us about a moment that a person's kindness made a difference in your life.

Jennifer Swenson: Wow. So as I mentioned, my dad was a pastor., And then went into evangelism. Unfortunately he was diagnosed with cancer in, it was actually Christmas of 1999. Throughout his cancer journey, I actually saw and witnessed the love that his fellow pastors and ministers gave back to him, right Ministers often give so much of themselves And I was able to see the love that they returned to him. So the ministers in the North County of San Diego were by his side, took him to some of the cancer treatments. I just really got to see love and kindness through them and how they treated my dad in the end.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really beautiful. It does change us, doesn't it?

Jennifer Swenson: It does.

Japhet De Oliveira: Everything, yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: A hundred percent.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. The difficulties and the love. Both of them change us, yeah. Good. All right. So that was 34, even number. Where next?

Jennifer Swenson: 43.

Japhet De Oliveira: 43. All right. Oh, tell us about the best gift you've ever received.

Jennifer Swenson: Oh my goodness. This is the best gift I've ever received. So Japhet, you know how much I love cars, right?

Japhet De Oliveira: I do. I do.

Jennifer Swenson: So that love did come from my dad.

Japhet De Oliveira: I do too.

Jennifer Swenson: He loved cars, but a funny story. He actually had a side business and he would buy and sell cars. So the joke in our family was you would drive home and park your car at night, and the next day you would have a different car. You just never knew. So I really wanted a sports car and he called me up and he had bought this car at the auction that was absolutely horrible. It was a Ford Thunderbird. I don't know if you know what those look like?

Japhet De Oliveira: I do know what that is, yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: But I should not be driving one. But I did because my dad said, "This is just temporary." So he called me up, I was working at St. Helena Hospital at the time and he said, "Can you meet me in San Francisco?" And I said, "Sure." And he said, "My brother and I are driving up and we want to show you something." So he pulled up into the hotel with a 1994 Pontiac TransAm, T-Tops. It was the most beautiful-

Japhet De Oliveira: Smokey and the Bandit.

Jennifer Swenson: I have ever seen, and my brother and my dad gave that car to me as a graduation gift from college. Honestly it was the best thing I ever received, but it was the love that went into it, right? It was the fact that they searched for this car and then they drove it up to me. It was just awesome.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. That is a classic. Well, absolutely. Hey, that's a beautiful story.

Jennifer Swenson: Then it started my love of sports cars even further.

Japhet De Oliveira: It really, it delved, Hey, that's great. All right, where next after 43?

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go to 50.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, you pronounced that. That was good. All right. Share, if you would, about who has influenced you professionally.

Jennifer Swenson: Professionally.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: That's so many people.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, I know. You can limit it to one or two. That's hard.

Jennifer Swenson: I've been in healthcare now 32 years. I started when I was 12 Japhet, so you can do that calculation.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, it's great. I'm writing it down now.

Jennifer Swenson: But throughout my time in healthcare, I've seen some really good leaders And I've seen some really poor leaders and honestly, I almost learned more from the poor leaders of what not to do in leadership. But I think one of the most influential people that I had in my life was Terry Hanson. Terry was a former CEO of Paradise Valley Hospital, a COO at Loma Linda University. But we had the opportunity to work together at Adventist Health Clear Lake when we were in an interim. He helped us in an interim role as CEO. He really taught me through, we were having some really challenging times with our medical staff, financial performance, and I was a CFO at the time. He taught me that even in the most difficult times, the most difficult decision, you can show love.

You can show love to people, and I think that was really a pivotal point for me, because as a young executive, you don't want to let people go. It's terrible, right? You don't want to change a department, and change is hard for people, but when you present it in a way of delivering on the why and having interactions with them to explain, and it's through love. I can't describe it any other way. It's through love that you care for these individuals, whether they're physicians, staff, that you can make some tough decisions, but you move forward. Everyone understands why. So, Terry taught me how to do that. I think that has been a pivotal point of learning in my career that I just now have really taken that to heart. Even though we have to eliminate positions on occasion due to poor performance or due to other reasons, when you do it from a place of love, individuals will be successful after that. That's our goal. Our goal is to help them be the best that they can be.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, absolutely. Stronger hospital, stronger systems. That actually makes a difference. Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. After 50, where'd you want to go?

Jennifer Swenson: Let's see. Well, I'm going to be 51 next month. So let's just go with that.

Japhet De Oliveira: Are you really? Well, congratulations. That's great. I'm two years behind. Two years behind. Well, no, I'm one year behind. I forget. I forget. So tell us about something that you know you do differently than most people.

Jennifer Swenson: Something that I do differently than most people?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: I have a natural ability to relate with people. So when you ask me to go through the hospital and go round. That actually is the best part of my day, because I love to engage with our associates and our physicians. There's nothing scripted. There's no secret agenda. I literally just want to get to know them. I want to understand how they're doing in their role. How can I support them? I think for some executives, especially those that might not be an extrovert, right? It's hard. It's hard.

But people have told me that they feel my genuineness. They feel that I'm not just doing this because I should, or I could, I'm doing this because I truly care. I think that that's unique about me and I know all about our plant operations team. I know their families, I know their stories, and I want to know that. I think that we often work in these environments and spend more time in the hospital setting than we sometimes do with our families. So it's very important for me to understand my associates and physicians. I think that that's probably a unique aspect of what I bring to the table.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's beautiful. That is really good as well. I mean, that's a culture game changer in the way that you do that. So thank you. Where after 51, then?

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go with 59.

Japhet De Oliveira: 59, all right. Here we go. In your opinion, what subject would you add to a school curriculum and what age would it be for?

Jennifer Swenson: Oh, what a great question. Especially now that I have a graduate from high school, I have one that's a junior in high school, and then I have a nine year old.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Jennifer Swenson: I would add practicality to our curriculum.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's good.

Jennifer Swenson: I remember the days that I actually had to take Shop. I had to learn what an engine did, and why oil is important, and how to change a tire. But also the young men in my class had to learn how to cook a meal, right? You had Home Ec. I think that these young individuals are coming out of school and not knowing how to navigate balancing your checkbook, how to make those basic decisions in life. So I think I would add practicality to the curriculum and specifically finance, personal finance.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good. Yes, very basic, but very important to build the box of life.

Jennifer Swenson: Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's good. Good. All right. Where next after that then? That was 59.

Jennifer Swenson: That was 59. Oh, I'm getting closer to 100 Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira: I know, this is great.

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go with 64.

Japhet De Oliveira: 64, OK. When you look back in your life, tell us about one of these moments, which was, what was I thinking?

Jennifer Swenson: Wow. I actually had that pretty recently actually.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, we were thinking like, 32 years ago, when you were 12.

Jennifer Swenson: What was I thinking? I think hiring people is probably one of the most important roles we do.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's so true.

Jennifer Swenson: Because especially with our leadership team, they can really impact culture pretty significantly and when you hire the wrong person into a role, that has ramifications. So looking back on my career, I probably hired someone that was not a good fit for the role, but I liked the person, and I wanted to give them a chance to be successful, and boy, did that come back at me.

Japhet De Oliveira: Not pan out.

Jennifer Swenson: It didn't pan out for the right reasons and those caution flags were there. But I think that's where my heart probably overrode my head a little bit in that, I wanted to give this in individual a chance to perform, but they just didn't step up when given the opportunity. So that was both disappointing, but also, a reflection on the fact that we create unique success profiles for each role.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes, we do.

Jennifer Swenson: Had I abided by that unique success profile, they weren't a good fit. So, lesson learned. Lesson learned.

Japhet De Oliveira: Absolutely. Courageous, but lesson learned.

Jennifer Swenson: Right.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, we have time now for two, the last two, and you can tell me the last two numbers, or you could tell me one and then decide what the last number is.

Jennifer Swenson: What was the last option?

Japhet De Oliveira: So you could tell me both of the numbers right now, and I'll just ask you the questions one after another, or you could ask me one number and then you could decide which final number you want. Yeah. Choices.

Jennifer Swenson: You're giving me way too many choices.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's great.

Jennifer Swenson: So I will give you one number now and then the next number.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right.

Jennifer Swenson: Let's go with 76.

Japhet De Oliveira: 76. Tell us if you would, about where you feel the safest and why?

Jennifer Swenson: Wow. Where I feel the safest? What a great question. I would have to say, I feel the safest when I have my family surrounding me and that's not just my immediate family. That's my mom and my brother, and the extended family, that's when I really feel safe. They know, they love me for who I am. They want me to be the very best that I can be and I can make mistakes, and I can trip and fall, and they will help pick me up. So I think that that's probably where I feel the safest.

Japhet De Oliveira: That is beautiful. That's good. I wish that for everybody, actually. That they all had families like that. You and I both know that there are lots who don't, so that's a real privilege and fantastic. Last number then, where would you like to go?

Jennifer Swenson: I almost want to say, Japhet, what do you recommend as a number?

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, I wish that we could turn it around that way. Oh, but unfortunately there are some rules that I created and we should stay with those.

Jennifer Swenson: OK. So I did 76, right?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, you just did 76.

Jennifer Swenson: Let's do 89.

Japhet De Oliveira: 89. All right. What is the most impactful no, that you said recently?

Jennifer Swenson: Say that again?

Japhet De Oliveira: What is the most impactful no, that you said recently? What have you said no to recently that was an important no, to say?

Jennifer Swenson: I literally just said no, and I'm trying to remember why, what the issue was around it. That's a very, very challenging question for me because you don't know this about me, because we haven't asked this question. That is my least favorite word on the planet. When I first arrived here, I said the one thing that you'll quickly learn about me is if you say no, that's just an immediate red flag for me, because there's always a way. There is always a point, but now you've turned that on me.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's interesting, isn't it?

Jennifer Swenson: I did say no and I want to say that the issue that I recently said no to was the fact that, I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, but the COVID pandemic has really been challenging.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes, it has.

Jennifer Swenson: For us, and challenging for our staff, and the visitor guidelines are extremely challenging. A family was in the process of letting go of a loved one and the restrictions are such that, we couldn't have more people in a room than a certain number, et cetera. I said, "You know what? I will take the brunt and I will take the hit if someone comes in and questions why we have this many people in the room, but right now that family needs to be together around their loved one. So go ahead and do what we need to do to care for that family." They actually turned that story into a love story about how we were there for them. But it's in that moment that you are faced with that challenge of, OK, the guidelines are a little strict right now, but you have to lean in and you have to do what's right. So I said, "No, we are not going to follow the rule at this time. We're going to go with what we feel is right for the family."

Japhet De Oliveira: Love is a very powerful mission, isn't it?

Jennifer Swenson: A hundred percent.

Japhet De Oliveira: I mean, you've mentioned it so many times and I think you're absolutely right. That it does call us to very difficult places to follow through. It is complex in this day and age as well. You're absolutely right about that.

Jennifer Swenson: Well, when my dad was going through cancer treatment, this was back in 2001, I can't imagine what it would've been like for us during a pandemic to have gone through that. It's just the timing of this all that's just horrible. People need to be able to say goodbye, to be with their loved one. It's on both sides. It's not only for that patient who's going through it, it's actually honestly, more for the family.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, it is. You are absolutely right about that. It is so much more for the family than anybody else. Love really does call us to that space. But I know that you make courageous and difficult decisions every single day. I want to thank you for sharing, and for your leadership, and for all that you're doing with your hospital and with your team there that absolutely adore you and speak so favorably of everything you do. So thank you so much for taking the time today for sharing a few of these stories and experiences that shaped you into the great leader that you are today as well.

Jennifer Swenson: That's awesome.

Japhet De Oliveira: Absolutely.

Jennifer Swenson: Thank you, Japhet, for this time. I'd love to know what the rest of the questions are, but we'll have to wait and see for the next time, right?

Japhet De Oliveira: Listen to other podcasts and people and you'll see. I want to encourage all listeners to do the same. We miss these opportunities, but we should encourage these opportunities. These moments where you can just sit with somebody, ask them good questions, listen to their stories, because I know that I'm changed by it. I'm challenged by your answers today. I think that we should continue doing so, because we both learn from each other and we can make the world a better place. So I encourage everybody to have an amazing day, to live God's love in the best way they know how and continue listening to the stories that shape you.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us for The Story & Experience Podcast. We invite you to read, watch and submit your story and experience at AdventistHealth.org/Story. The Story & Experience Podcast was bought to you by Adventist Health.