Karen Hunter
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Narrator: Welcome, friends, to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira, with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, welcome friends to another episode of The Story & Experience podcast. I'm delighted to be able to sit here with a new guest. I'm delighted to introduce them to you in a second. If you're brand new to the podcast, we have 100 questions. They progressively become more vulnerable about stories and experiences that shape this leader into the leader that they are today. So I'm going to begin with the first 10, and then you get to pick after that 11 to 100 where you want to go. And the first one is, could you tell us your name and does anybody ever mispronounce it?

Karen Hunter: Hi, yes. My name is Karen Hunter and no one mispronounces it, which I'm so grateful for. Actually, this means a lot to me because I was a military brat.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh really?

Karen Hunter: And moving all the time, 12 schools in 12 years. And it was always very important to me that no one mispronounced my name. That was-

Japhet De Oliveira: 12 schools in 12 years?

Karen Hunter: Mm-hmm.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, my. Wow. So I've got to ask, before I even get into this, do you feel really comfortable in strange places?

Karen Hunter: I do. I do. And I need change on a routine basis.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really?

Karen Hunter: Mm-hmm.

Japhet De Oliveira: Now, what's a secret? What's a secret? I mean, this is not even the questions. What is a secret for somebody who's going to a new school, a new job? How do you engage really quickly? You must have some skills.

Karen Hunter: What I tend to observe quickly, and yes, I'm really good at blending in, and just looking around quickly and seeing, "What are the norms here?" One time I moved to Alaska, rural Alaska, and the first day they're giving me a tour of the nursing unit as a nurse. And I see a stack of shoes in the lounge, the nurse's lounge, and I said, "What is this?" And they're like, "Well, you wouldn't wear your shoes outside." I said, "Oh no, of course not." I mean, I'm quick on things like that.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. That's good. I like that. All right. Well, thank you for sharing that. That's just an interesting insight straight away. Here's the second question. Could you tell us what you do for work?

Karen Hunter: Yes. I am the Chief Nursing Informatics Officer and I'm very honored to be this. This is for me the pinnacle of my career. I've prepared for 30 years for this role.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow, okay.

Karen Hunter: I'm just ecstatic to be here in this role.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow. That's fantastic. Now what does that really mean, informatics for nursing? Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Yes. So informatics core meaning is information flow, managing information. And we're in the age of information. We are knowledge workers now. It's not how do you do things so much, but what do you know about how you do it? And so managing the massive amount of information in healthcare. And then nurses have their own information needs.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes.

Karen Hunter: And so how do we leverage technology? Technology's not the end game, but it's leveraging it as a tool to help nurses be more effective in their role.

Japhet De Oliveira: Ooh, that's good. And how did you end up in this particular role? I mean, do you have a career in this particular path or...

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Is this a passion of yours?

Karen Hunter: It's a passion.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, yeah?

Karen Hunter: Yeah. So it starts when I was born. No, I'm kidding.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really? No, we'll get there.

Karen Hunter: Yeah. The technology has been a big passion of mine for a long time. My father was an industrial engineer in the military and my mother was a math teacher, so it kind of went together well. So I always had a mechanical kind of approach to things. And then I was working, I worked at the bedside for nine years as a nurse, traditional job. Then I went into management. I was a nurse manager on a cardiothoracic step-down unit at Duke University. And we had a fatal medical error while I was there where a young girl, seventeen-year-old girl came in for a transplant of her heart and lung. And in the course of the transplant, the blood type was overlooked, it did not match.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Karen Hunter: And subsequently she passed. But I knew everyone involved. I knew the surgeons, the nurses, and good people, smart people. And I thought, "Well, how can technology help us be better and be safer?" And so I went back to school, got my master's in nursing informatics. I was like, "This is it for me." And I've never looked back.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's amazing journey. Wow. What a pivotal turn, right?

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Learning from everything. That's great. Hey Karen, where were you born of the 12 places that you moved?

Karen Hunter: Absolutely.

Japhet De Oliveira: Where were you born?

Karen Hunter: So I was born in Waycross, Georgia.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Then you grew up there for, what, five minutes or...

Karen Hunter: Oh yeah, four months.

Japhet De Oliveira: Four months, really?

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. So normally I would ask in your early years what you imagined you would grow up to be. So wherever you were located, what did you imagine you would grow up to be?

Karen Hunter: It was not this. I had no idea this existed. No, I think typically I pictured myself as a business woman with a suitcase or briefcase and suit and kind of generic.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Karen Hunter: I didn't really have specific plans. I went into college actually as a computer science major and a kindly old professor told me this was no place for a nice young lady and I should go into nursing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay, okay.

Karen Hunter: And I did.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. Well, the turn turned. It did. It did. Yeah. Eventually.

Karen Hunter: There was more wisdom in that than I realized at the time.

Japhet De Oliveira: Now, are you an early riser or late night owl?

Karen Hunter: I am an early riser.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, yeah. I'm with early, yes.

Karen Hunter: For me about 5:00.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right, so early. And first thought that went through your mind today at 5:00 when you got up.

Karen Hunter: First thought, I always listen to the news when I wake up.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh yeah, right.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Okay. Do you have a series of channels or one channel?

Karen Hunter: I do. New York Times has a podcast, 15 minutes. NPR is a 15-minute kind of-

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great.

Karen Hunter: Yeah. So I spent about 30, 45 minutes getting all my little quick updates.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's fantastic.

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. Do you ever feel when you're listening to things that you need to write them down or you just audibly absorb them?

Karen Hunter: I write down a lot, but I have more to process it. I don't look back very often.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Hey, that's good. That's interesting. All right, first drink of the day, then this morning after you had your news. Do you have water, coffee, tea, liquid green smoothie?

Karen Hunter: I aspire to liquid green smoothies.

Japhet De Oliveira: Don't we all? Don't we all?

Karen Hunter: I haven't been there. For me, at the same time, I do herbal tea and coffee.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. At the same time.

Karen Hunter: At the same time, yeah. Just kind of-

Japhet De Oliveira: Two cups?

Karen Hunter: Two cups and just go through it.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. That's great. That's great. Personality, Karen, if people would describe you, would they say you were an introvert or an extrovert and would you agree?

Karen Hunter: I'm an introvert and no one would disagree with that.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right, all right, all right. Hey, that's fine. And then just a leadership question here. Are you a backseat driver?

Karen Hunter: No.

Japhet De Oliveira: No.

Karen Hunter: No. But that predicates that I know who's driving, where we're going, what the plan is. So I don't get in the car until-

Japhet De Oliveira: Until you have that.

Karen Hunter: But as a leader, same thing, I'm trusting the people I'm working with. We've vetted each other, we know what we're doing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Hey, that's fantastic. All right. The floor is open, Karen. So where would you like to go? 11 to 100.

Karen Hunter: Awesome. I'm going to go to 12.

Japhet De Oliveira: 12. All right. What are your favorite movie or book of all time?

Karen Hunter: The Royal Tenenbaums.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

Karen Hunter: Yes. Love that movie. In fact, my family teases me about the Karen genre of movies.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. I did not think about that. It's the how you said it.

Karen Hunter: Yeah. It's the all-star cast. It's amazing. Gwyneth Paltrow, Ben Stiller, Angelica Huston. And it's about a family and they run through a crisis and they find redemption at the end. And at the end, the father who's the worst character, finds the most redemption. And it just was really moving to me.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really beautiful. Hey, that's good. All right, that was 12. Where next?

Karen Hunter: Let's go to 23.

Japhet De Oliveira: 23. All right. Tell us about the most outdated piece of technology that you still use on a regular basis.

Karen Hunter: Oh, man. So first eight years of my career, I was a night nurse, and so to sleep during the day, I have a white noise machine.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right.

Karen Hunter: And it's got to be 40 years old.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really?

Karen Hunter: Yeah. In fact, my-

Japhet De Oliveira: Are you still using it?

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: The same machine?

Karen Hunter: My dad repaired it one time for me and it's still working.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, bless.

Karen Hunter: Yes. No fancy alternative sounds. It's just...

Japhet De Oliveira: Does it have a horse and buggy to power? No.

Karen Hunter: There's a little mouse and a wheel.

Japhet De Oliveira: A little mouse and a wheel. That's amazing technology.

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. All right. That was 23. Yeah. Where next?

Karen Hunter: Let's go to 34.

Japhet De Oliveira: 34. Tell us about a moment that a person's kindness made a difference in your life.

Karen Hunter: So many times I find this just incredible. I'm one of those people that has been harsh on myself, really driving a lot, and I'm always just blown away when people are kind to me. It's hard to think of a specific example, but I think just move... When I came to Adventist Health, people have been so kind and generous. And Jackie Leibowitz is who I work for, and she actually, this is allowed to be said, but she actually signed me up for benefits a month ahead so that I would have no lapse in coverage. I didn't even ask for that, but the thought was just so gracious and it just made me feel so cared for.

Japhet De Oliveira: The transition, yeah.

Karen Hunter: Yeah, that's just one of the more recent examples.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, it's good. It's good when people take care of you.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Right. Yeah. It's fantastic. Glad to hear that. All right. Where next?

Karen Hunter: 45.

Japhet De Oliveira: 45. All right. When people come to you for help, what are they usually asking for?

Karen Hunter: Most of the time it's around technology.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh yeah. Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: To understand it or to use it or teach it?

Karen Hunter: All of those things. Yeah. I think my strength is in, "How do we use it most effectively?" It's there people smarter than me that build it and wire it and all those things, program it. But at the end of the day, a computer is no good to a nurse, if she doesn't know how to use it in her practice.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes, yes. So you constantly look at it through those lenses all the time?

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Making sure that it's smooth and easy.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. All right. Hey, fantastic.

Karen Hunter: And to what end? I'm always thinking.

Japhet De Oliveira: And to what end?

Karen Hunter: Yeah. Not technology for the sake of it, but just what are we doing?

Japhet De Oliveira: Because there could be a lot, right? A lot of extra that's become the burden more than anything else.

Karen Hunter: Yeah. The average ICU room has 19 pieces of technology in it.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really?

Karen Hunter: Yes. And I was an ICU nurse for years and I used to say, "How long do I have to troubleshoot a piece of equipment? How long can you hold your breath?" It's so we have to know quickly what we're doing and which ones matter.

Japhet De Oliveira: And do those things change often in your experience?

Karen Hunter: Not as often as they should.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right.

Karen Hunter: We're kind of behind.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Welcome to all healthcare in the world.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah. And so they're pretty stable and people use them, but they have to understand them all.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Hey, that's great. All right, that was 45. Where next?

Karen Hunter: 56.

Japhet De Oliveira: 56. Share an activity that makes you lose all sense of time.

Karen Hunter: Cooking.

Japhet De Oliveira: Cooking, really?

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Did you teach yourself to cook?

Karen Hunter: I did. Although my mom was an excellent cook because I modeled after her, but not formal teaching. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Does your whole family cook or do you? You're like, "No." Okay. All right. But you enjoy cooking?

Karen Hunter: I do.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Your favorite meal that you like to cook.

Karen Hunter: Oh my gosh, so many. So Italian food.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Because I did live in Italy for three years.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh really? Cool.

Karen Hunter: Wow. And so I have a lot of authentic recipes that one of my neighbor ladies taught me.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really?

Karen Hunter: So I really enjoy that. Yeah. They're pretty simple, but wholesome and delicious.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. That's fantastic. Good. Good. All right. Where next then?

Karen Hunter: 67.

Japhet De Oliveira: 67. All right. Oh, what's the best picture that you've ever taken and why?

Karen Hunter: Oh, wow. I have a picture of me and my granddaughter on Angel Island where we were walking around and for some reason just we had the right clothes on. And I had a pink and blue umbrella that we were holding for the sun and the background and it was just gorgeous.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Yeah. It's like one of those special moments with the right colors, with the nature. Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Yes. And it was just wonderful spending the day with her.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. Did you get to see her a lot?

Karen Hunter: I don't. She lives in New Jersey.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. A fair track. A fair track. East to west. Yes.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. Where next? That was 67.

Karen Hunter: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Karen Hunter: 78. 78.

Japhet De Oliveira: Right. She's good. Tell us about what gives you childlike joy.

Karen Hunter: I can feel childlike joy as I'm thinking of this, I'm trying to think of when I had it last. Playing a game with my sisters. We traveled a lot as kids. We moved around a lot and spent a lot of time in temporary housing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

Karen Hunter: And so we would play UNO or things like that. Dominoes and things. Just sitting around a table with them laughing is just so much fun. We did it recently last year.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh yeah?

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. That's good.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. So you guys are already close.

Karen Hunter: Very close.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. What's the secret to actually having a close relationship, building a close relationship like that with siblings?

Karen Hunter: I think my siblings, except for one, there's always one, right?

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, pray. Do tell.

Karen Hunter: There's four of us, and I think we really give each other grace to be who we are and not judge each other, really bend over backwards at times to accommodate spouses and things like that. I have one sister, I think, is struggling to get there, but she will. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's good. That's good. All right. Where next?

Karen Hunter: I have to think. That was, I think, 78. So we're up in 99. Is that too high? No, no wait. 89. Sorry.

Japhet De Oliveira: 89. That's fine. That's all good. I mean you can go up and down, but I'm very happy to go to 99.

Karen Hunter: Let's go to 89.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. 89. What is the most impactful "no" that you've said recently? She's like, "I say no often."

Karen Hunter: I don't know if I can get into that one.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right.

Karen Hunter: But I can say it was very impactful. It was one of the hardest things I've do because I want to be happy, I want everybody to be happy. I came here to help and so it is hard for me to say I work really hard to find that happy middle ground and drive to a consensus. But I had to say no recently, and it was really hard, losing sleep for a couple of days kind of hard.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

Karen Hunter: But it worked out. I did lay down what I felt was my boundary and it was honored.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. It's difficult when you lose sleep over some things, right? Because then it's complex. So when people are stressed and when you're stressed, how do you de-stress?

Karen Hunter: That's a really good question. So I take ashwagandha.

Japhet De Oliveira: Ashwagandha. I don't know what that is.

Karen Hunter: It's an herbal supplement.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay, great.

Karen Hunter: It just gives me a little bit of a chill, helps me sleep, but sleeping on things, I try to walk away.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really? Okay.

Karen Hunter: Take a mental break, think about something else.

Japhet De Oliveira: Like physically walk?

Karen Hunter: Yes, I do physically walk, take a break mentally, listen to a podcast, watch something, and then come back to it. And I find that my mind will process it while I'm away and not sleeping on it. And then I'll have an insight.

Japhet De Oliveira: Now, did you find it always easier to share it with your patients what they should do than with yourself?

Karen Hunter: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right.

Karen Hunter: It's always easier seeing someone else.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. All right. All right. No worries. No worries. All good. All right, that was 89, so where next?

Karen Hunter: Okay. How many more do we have?

Japhet De Oliveira: A few.

Karen Hunter: A few. Okay. Let's start 90. Let's slow it down.

Japhet De Oliveira: 90. Okay. Right. 90. Very funny. All right, tell us about how you overcame something that was seemingly insurmountable but you overcame it.

Karen Hunter: That's a great question. So many things. I mean, many things to me felt insurmountable until I did it. But I would say that, I don't want to sound cocky, but everything I have tried, I have accomplished.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, okay. That's good.

Karen Hunter: It may not have happened the first time-

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you go at it again?

Karen Hunter: Go at it again.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

Karen Hunter: Yes. Seek guidance. And I love my council of elders that I can reach out to and say, "How do I do this?" But I think about things like when I was a new manager, trying to have those hard conversations with people about, "Your body odor, it really needs to be addressed." But doing it in a way that made people feel supported and cared for and made the team stronger. I was always a high performer and one of the things that annoyed me was when people were slackers got away with it. So when I was a manager, I'm like, "Never going to let that happen." But I had to figure out how to do that because people aren't slacking most of the time because they're bad people. They're slacking because they don't know what to do or they don't know how to do it and they don't want to say that, or they don't want to ask for help. So getting in there and creating a team where we could effectively help each other and show each other up or just say, "This is not the place you."

Japhet De Oliveira: Evaluating people and trying to understand what motivates them, any tips for us?

Karen Hunter: I would say I'm Pollyanna in a lot of ways, so I struggled with... I never go negative. I'm always like, "Okay, this is positive." Something I always think give people the benefit of the doubt.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. Yeah.

Karen Hunter: And I ask just what's going on and I find I get a lot of candor that way.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's great. That's great. Good. That was 90.

Karen Hunter: Okay. Yeah. Let's say 92.

Japhet De Oliveira: 92. All right. Oh, Karen, how would you like to be remembered?

Karen Hunter: I think I'd like to be remembered as someone who gave her best.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Just kept trying and showed up every time with everything.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. There's an interesting theme that I'm picking up from your answers. I'm picking up that resiliency, determination kind of seem to come out of your soul. Where did that come from?

Karen Hunter: That's interesting. I never thought of that. I was the oldest child.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

Karen Hunter: And so we moved a lot. And my parents, my dad was always on the job. My mom was busy setting up the house and I felt like it was up to me to sort out my sisters and get us all where we needed to be and not be trouble. I didn't want to cause trouble for my poor parents who were trying to manage all this. So I think that was the origin. And then just as I've moved forward, just I don't want to be a burden and that I want to make things better.

Japhet De Oliveira: Are you the fixer?

Karen Hunter: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, yeah. Do you fix things before people see them? Do you find that-

Karen Hunter: I can anticipate a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: And is that something you learned? Again, is that something you found that you have a natural gift for or is it something you've cultivated?

Karen Hunter: I think it's a natural gift. And it's interesting you say that because I remember the first time I heard that I just moved to Alaska. And I remember sitting out in the yard and there was a minister there and we were cleaning fish or something. And he said-

Japhet De Oliveira: As you would in Alaska.

Karen Hunter: Yeah. As you do. Yeah. And he said to me, he goes, "You are anticipating everything I need in moving." He goes, "That's why you're a great nurse." And I'm like, "I never knew that." So it's just part of my nature I think.

Japhet De Oliveira: That is great. So people have seen things inside you. Do you find that you see it in others as well easily? Their gifts and their insights?

Karen Hunter: I'm getting there.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Yeah. I think I haven't been as good as that as I would like to be.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah.

Karen Hunter: But I'm learning more and more.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. Good, good. All right, that was 92.

Karen Hunter: 94.

Japhet De Oliveira: 94. All right. If you could change one thing in the world, what would it be?

Karen Hunter: Oh, wow. I think I'd like to get rid of fear. I think if we could act from, not fear, but love and support, we would get so much more done. I think people put up so many barriers because we're afraid of something the unknown or afraid of feeling foolish or something. But if we could just move forward in love, motivated with thinking about what's good for everyone.

Japhet De Oliveira: Can you think of an example in your life where you could have chosen the fear path but you chose the love path and it made this decision?

Karen Hunter: I was living in South Georgia and yes, it was my first director role, so it was really scary.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

Karen Hunter: And choosing, and I never knew those before, but when I was in my [inaudible 00:21:43] firstly it was like, "Don't tell anyone this and don't share this." And I'm like, "What can I do?"

Japhet De Oliveira: Just don't.

Karen Hunter: Yeah, but leaning into, "There are groups that need to know this or I need input from other groups, I'm going to have to share this." And so going out and across the aisle if you into other departments and saying, "I have a concern. We're trying to move in this direction. What are your thoughts? How would this affect you?" And then it was very scary at first because I thought I'll get in trouble or there may be untoward outcome, but it worked out well and I learned to do that across the aisle, talk to everybody.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Good, better and different because we'll do better if we're all on the same page.

Japhet De Oliveira: Collaboration makes a difference.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Right? Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, it's good. Good. All right. Where next? That was 94.

Karen Hunter: Thank you. 96.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's okay. Tell us about the last time that you cried.

Karen Hunter: Oh, question number four.

Japhet De Oliveira: I know, I know, I know. I was like, "People didn't see it, but I saw it." I was like-

Karen Hunter: Just a moment.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, a few moments ago.

Karen Hunter: Yeah, actually it's pretty rare. It's pretty rare because I'm pretty content and I feel empowered that if something isn't going awry that I can adjust. So that being said, I guess in the last year, a little over a year, both my parents have passed.

Japhet De Oliveira: I'm so sorry.

Karen Hunter: And thank you. It's no regrets. I know they were ready and they had good lives and it all went well for what it was, but just the sadness of missing them. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah. So what do you miss most about your dad?

Karen Hunter: Wow. He tried so hard in everything he did. And I think he was just brilliant in so many ways, but he was understated and he-

Japhet De Oliveira: A humble man?

Karen Hunter: Yes. Yeah. But he was so smart and practical. He was in the military and he worked around mainly weapons of mass destruction, so not an area where you can make many mistakes. And he would come into units that were not performing well and get them performing well. And so he was really good at cutting to the chase. "What's wrong, what's going on? Who's an issue?" I remember one story he shared with me where kind of unrelated to the weapons, but a young GI had recently separated from his wife and their apartment was a wreck and it was base housing, so you have to maintain certain standards.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure.

Karen Hunter: And so the wife had left the house was a wreck. And they called my dad to go in and fix it. And he didn't argue with the guy and he said, "The house is a wreck, you're bringing in a cleaner and that's it." And I was like, "Oh, rather than arguing about, 'Why can't you clean? Do you not know how to clean?'" It was just like, "We're just bringing in a professional, and that's that." And it's a simple example, but he just was always able to-

Japhet De Oliveira: Cut through it.

Karen Hunter: Yeah. And he was a fan of dimming. So he relied on data and we had procedures around the house, everything we did. If you're boiling water for tea in the summer, you do it this way. If you're boiling water for tea in the winter, you do it that way. And so all these calculated procedures, but everything had a reason and it all made sense to me. And I was joking. I was just at Becker's last week and I met a physician for Mayo Clinic. We were speaking on a panel together and we were laughing and I said, "I thought everyone thought that way." I was shocked when I got into the world that people just do things randomly with no thought.

Japhet De Oliveira: Isn't it funny? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's so true.

Karen Hunter: And she was laughing with me about that and we had that same experience.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's beautiful. And what about your mom? Give me a story about your mom.

Karen Hunter: My mom, she just loved me. It was nice to have someone in your corner.

Japhet De Oliveira: Isn't it?

Karen Hunter: You always know is going to-

Japhet De Oliveira: No matter what.

Karen Hunter: No matter what, you can show up and say, "I did the worst thing." "No, you didn't."

Japhet De Oliveira: We all need that.

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's really good. That's really good. Hey, we have time for two more.

Karen Hunter: Okay.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Final two numbers. Where would you like to go?

Karen Hunter: Let's go. 99 and 100.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. All right. 99. What is the most difficult truth you've ever told?

Karen Hunter: So now you really getting me crying. When my daughter was young, so her father and I divorced, thank you, when she was a baby. And when she hit about 12, 13, I think she hit that classic Erikson stage of identity versus, I forget the other part, but anyways, look at who she is. And her dad was a big part of that and they had never been in close contact.

Japhet De Oliveira: Right.

Karen Hunter: And I realized that she needed to go spend some time with him and that she would need to go and he wanted her to come. And so I had to talk her into moving to her dad's. I mean, I didn't have to twist her arm, but I had to say, "I think this is the right thing for you right now."

Japhet De Oliveira: Encourage her.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Karen Hunter: And let her go knowing that I didn't know when she might come back or I might see her again. And plus there's that risk, he and I didn't have a great relationship, so the risk that he would try to turn her against me or something, all those fears. But it was hard to say, "This is still the right thing for you right now in your life," but we survived.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, you did, you did. Well done for that.

Karen Hunter: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: Courage. All right, question 100 then.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Karen, if you wouldn't mind, tell me one question you'd rather not answer.

Karen Hunter: It kind of goes back to where we talked about the kindnesses of others, and I think in my life people have shown me mercy crucial times when I was an idiot. And rather than just abrading me, they've shown me mercy.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Karen Hunter: And I don't want to admit how stupid I...

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. You don't have to. You don't have to. You don't have to. But you understand the depth of it.

Karen Hunter: Yes. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Karen Hunter: Yeah. And just the mercy of good people.

Japhet De Oliveira: I was talking to a friend recently and I hope that they listen to this podcast because I think that receiving grace and giving grace go hand in hand. Yeah. The more that we have people look after us, the more we're able to look after others.

Karen Hunter: Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: And the more we're able to forgive ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Karen, thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for your honesty and amazing journey in your life to take you to where you are helping Adventist Health right now with all of this to make things simpler, cleaner, and easier for not only our nurses, but our patients as well as a result of that.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: So it's great.

Karen Hunter: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's been a privilege to be able to talk. Thank you.

Karen Hunter: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: I want to encourage people to do the same thing. I say this every episode because I believe it that if you talk to somebody and you ask them good questions, we are both transformed by it. Hearing each other's stories is really important. So I encourage people to do that. And God bless everybody and we'll connect soon. Thanks again.

Karen Hunter: Thank you.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us for The Story & Experience Podcast. We invite you to read, watch, and submit your story and experience at adventisthealth.org/story. The Story & Experience podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health through the Office of Culture.