Mary Courtney Ore
Episode 170

Narrator: Welcome, friends, to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira, with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families, and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, welcome, friends, to another episode of The Story & Experience Podcast. We have 100 questions that we're going to cover. Not all of them, but they are questions about stories and experiences that shape this individual into the leader that they are today. I'm going to ask the first 10, they're going to take off after that, and we will see where the story goes. I'm going to be giving number one. I'm just going to ask you. Can I ask you, could you tell us your name? And does anybody ever mispronounce it?

Mary Courtney Ore: My name is Mary Courtney Ore, and I prefer to be called Mary Courtney.

Japhet De Oliveira: Mary Courtney?

Mary Courtney Ore: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow. Good. I think I just called you Mary earlier.

Mary Courtney Ore: And so do many people. I take no offense.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, thank you, Mary Courtney.

Mary Courtney Ore: I grew up in the South in Virginia, and using first and middle name is not uncommon. You probably run into some Mary Katharines or Mary Elizabeth. I'm Mary Courtney.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good. Where were you born?

Mary Courtney Ore: I was actually born in Petersburg, Virginia.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really? And did you grow up there for a long time? Or ...

Mary Courtney Ore: When I was two years old, my family moved to Harrisonburg, Virginia, which is about an hour north of Charlottesville. And most people have heard of Charlottesville because of UVA and Thomas Jefferson and all that good history.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. That's great.

Mary Courtney Ore: Shenandoah Valley.

Japhet De Oliveira: Shenandoah Valley. I do know of that as well. Hey, that's good. That's fantastic. Well, Mary Courtney, could you tell us what you do for work?

Mary Courtney Ore: I am currently the executive director of the Martin-O'Neil Cancer Center for Adventist Health in St. Helena, California.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow. Have you done this long?

Mary Courtney Ore: I have been in this position since for six months now. I have been in the field of oncology for about 42.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, my goodness. 42 months, or 42 years? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. You said six months. I was like, are we talking about baby terms here?

Mary Courtney Ore: 42 years-

Japhet De Oliveira: 42 years.

Mary Courtney Ore: I went into-

Japhet De Oliveira: ... Mary Courtney. Wow.

Mary Courtney Ore: In my early 20s, I decided ... When you're trying to figure out what you want to do with one's life, I decided I wanted to be a radiation therapist, and those are the people who give radiation treatments to cancer patients, and that's where it all started.

Japhet De Oliveira: This is not an easy role.

Mary Courtney Ore: It is not an easy role. You are absolutely right, but one of my favorite oncologist, Dr. Craig Nichols, medical oncologist, said once, "There are more human moments in oncology than any other specialty I can think of." And I can tell you after four decades, it's very true. It is. What we do is sacred. The relationships we make with family and patients. And I can sincerely tell you it has been the honor of my life to treat these patients in need.

Japhet De Oliveira: I agree. And I think I love the word sacred that you used inside that. It's very ... That's beautiful. I've never thought about it in that way. All these moments. That is true. Mary Courtney, that's fantastic. You alluded to a little bit of how you made a choice at a very early age. What did you imagine, first of all, you would be when you were growing up? And then how did you end up deciding this?

Mary Courtney Ore: I honestly thought I was going to be on Broadway.

Japhet De Oliveira: Really? All right. All right. Dancing or singing or everything?

Mary Courtney Ore: But somehow ... Not that I don't have the dramatics, but I didn't have the voice.

I went to a more practical way of being able to-

Japhet De Oliveira: Broadway oncology. I know.

Mary Courtney Ore: To oncology. And I had experience with cancer from a very young age. I had a neighbor, an older woman, who I adored who had cancer. And then my mother's best friend, who was like my second mom ... She was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was probably in junior high school. I saw what she went through. I was with her so much of the time. She ended up ... She died my senior year in high school, but it was through her cancer, her experiences going for her radiation treatments, and at that time it was cobalt. There was no ionizing radiation, linear accelerators, like we have today. Now you know I am really old because I treated on a cobalt machine.

She said to me one time ... She was in the hospital, and she said, "You should be a nurse." I was like, "Oh, Nancy, I don't think so." And she said, "No, you are just such a wonderful caregiver." And I was young when she spoke those words to me, but I think she was absolutely correct. I owe it to her, I think, that I fell onto this path.

Japhet De Oliveira: Does she know that she made such a transformation in your life?

Mary Courtney Ore: Well, unfortunately she died when I was 18, and I didn't go to radiation therapy school until I was 21. Unfortunately, she never knew, but I'd like to think she ... I carry her with me in my heart every day. So many times I think of her when I'm dealing with a situation in oncology. Her spirit has been with me through the whole thing.

Japhet De Oliveira: That is beautiful. I have to ask. I mean, we could get into the other questions, but I have to ask now, how do you recover from the difficult moments? Because you must have a lot of difficult moments.

Mary Courtney Ore: Speaking in the profession or ...

Japhet De Oliveira: Taking care of patients and…

Mary Courtney Ore: I had both. I don't think anyone in this life escapes cancer, going through it, whether it's you personally or a loved one. Cancer's a great equalizer, and it has no boundaries. But I think what we have to focus on, if we choose to work in this specialty, is the fact that we are trying to cure cancer. We're trying to extend life. We're trying to ... If we can't cure the patient, we're trying to give them the best quality of life for the time that they have with us.

And with radiation and chemo, we can take tremendous pain away so that a patient doesn't have to be heavily medicated, and they can have that clear time to be with family and to have those conversations that no one will forget and will carry with them forever.

If we focused on all the ones that die, I don't think any of us could probably get up and come into work every day.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow. Yes.

Mary Courtney Ore: We must focus on the big picture. And if we can't cure them, then ultimately, through what we're doing, we hope we can give them a great death. And you don't hear people speak a lot about death, especially in our-

Japhet De Oliveira: But it's true.

Mary Courtney Ore: But in our field, we can't really escape not talking about it. And I feel ... And I learned this through with my own parents. I had the honor of being with both of them when they took their last breath. Both of them died from cancers. And it was such an honor to be present to that and to know that when I say they truly had a great death, they really did. They were surrounded by my siblings, and the last voices they heard were our voices and speaking to them to that final moment.

And so, we're not with our patients when they have their final moment because by that time they're in hospice, or they're at home, but I still think we can ... For the ones that know that they're metastatic disease, they've been coming to us for years, which is an incredible thing now, how long people can live with metastatic disease, but they know when they're getting to the end of the road that we can ... Like I said, we have very ... These relationships are quite sacred because you're dealing with the public, unlike anyone else does. We're dealing with the death and dying. I think we are ... I don't think you just go into oncology.

Japhet De Oliveira: No.

Mary Courtney Ore: For me, I almost feel-

Japhet De Oliveira: ... it's a calling.

Mary Courtney Ore: It's a calling. Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: It is.

Mary Courtney Ore: And I felt like it was a calling. And sometimes I think I don't even know if I'm worthy to be in this because it's such a big deal-

Japhet De Oliveira: That's what makes the calling real, Mary Courtney.

Mary Courtney Ore: Excuse me?

Japhet De Oliveira: That's what makes the calling even more sacred and real, that you don't know whether you were called into it.

Hey, that is beautiful. To have a great death is to be loved. Not to be alone is really beautiful.

Mary Courtney Ore: I think the most important thing in life is love. And I think we look for it and want it and hopefully receive and give it. And certainly in those ... When you're faced with something like cancer, love is everything.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes.

Mary Courtney Ore: And the love starts from the time a patient walks into the cancer center to the front desk. The front desk employees give love. That's all we give all day long.

Japhet De Oliveira: To our guests, the reason ... The rationale of what happened and how this podcast happened is because I walked into your center for a story, met you, met your staff, met the people there, and I thought, oh, my goodness, they're just ... They're so amazing from ... And I'm not even a patient. I'm here just to watch a story of a breast cancer survivor. And then I met you and watched how you told and shared the story, and I thought I have to find a way to record you.

Mary Courtney, thank you.

Mary Courtney Ore: Well, thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: Thank you and your team, what they do.

Mary Courtney Ore: Well, I think I inherited a great team six months ago when I walked into this cancer center. But I always make my philosophy very clear, whatever cancer center I'm running, is that every patient who walks through our doors or calls us ... We will treat them as a member of our own family because one day it will be your own family.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's true. That's very, very true. High likelihood.

Mary Courtney Ore: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Mary Courtney, I'm going to dive into some kind of a different area, just a lighter area, and then we'll come back to something a little bit heavier over here. But practical. Are you an early riser or a late-night owl?

Mary Courtney Ore: I'm a late-night owl.

Japhet De Oliveira: How late is late night for you?

Mary Courtney Ore: Well, when I was younger, it could be very late, 1:00, 1:30, and then I could still get up and go to work.

Certainly because I have to get up early. But if I had my choice, I think a proper time of day to start working is 9:00 or 10:00. I think that's far more civilized.

Japhet De Oliveira: I like it. Now, in the morning when you get up, first thought that went through your mind this morning ... What was it today?

Mary Courtney Ore: Actually, my first thought today was I get to finally do this because I've been looking ... I've been ... To the podcast. And I've been looking forward to it.

Japhet De Oliveira: It was great.

Mary Courtney Ore: I enjoyed our brief time together, and I was really looking forward to getting to see you again and talk to you.

Japhet De Oliveira: Likewise. Real privilege for me as well. And then do you drink coffee or tea or water or liquid green smoothie? What's your first drink of the day?

Mary Courtney Ore: I am definitely a coffee drinker.

Japhet De Oliveira: And black? Or ...

Mary Courtney Ore: No, I like to have a little cream, and I used to have to have a sweetener, but I am pretty much just a cream girl now.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. That's fantastic. All right. And then personality. If people were to describe your personality, would they say you're an introvert or an extrovert? And would you agree with them?

Mary Courtney Ore: They would describe me as an extrovert, and I absolutely agree with them.

Japhet De Oliveira: No hesitation.

Mary Courtney Ore: Hands down. No question.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hands down. Here's a leadership question now. Are you a backseat driver?

Mary Courtney Ore: I would say no. My husband would say yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. We'll leave it at that. It's good. Floor is open. Where would you like to go between 11 and 100?

Mary Courtney Ore: 11 and 100?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Mary Courtney Ore: All right. Let's start with 61.

Japhet De Oliveira: 61. All right. Brilliant. Here it is. Tell us about a time in your life that required incredible courage. How many?

Mary Courtney Ore: Wow. I think it probably goes back to the period of time that I lost my parents seven months apart, as I said, to cancers. It was very difficult toward the end of my mother's diagnosis. She had been diagnosed seven months earlier, and she wanted to live, even though during the seven months she lost her husband. My dad. She was diagnosed first, but he up and got diagnosed in the middle of her treatments, and he was diagnosed with AML and died 10 days later from his diagnosis. He never even got out of the hospital.

And I had taken him to the ER. I'd gotten home one day from taking her for her radiation and chemotherapy. I got home, and he almost collapsed in the kitchen. I knew he had seemed kind of lethargic, but ... Anyway, I got him to the emergency room in our hometown. And as I said, he was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia. And going home probably at 3:00 AM and having to look my mother in the face who's already having a very not a good prognosis with her cancer and her saying, "How bad is it?" And I had to say, "It's bad."

Japhet De Oliveira: That is.

Mary Courtney Ore: And as I said, he was dead 10 days later. I wanted to tell her anything but that. You never want to take anyone's hope away. But I knew that my mother was tough as nails. I knew that she would handle it. And out of respect for her, I had to be honest.

Japhet De Oliveira: And you were there as well.

Mary Courtney Ore: And I was there as well.

Japhet De Oliveira: Thank you, Mary Courtney, for sharing that. That does take a lot of courage and to hold that space as well, for sure.

Right, my friend. Where would you like to go next?

Mary Courtney Ore: 12.

Japhet De Oliveira: 12. What's your favorite movie or book of all time, and why? I'm curious to see if it's going to be a Broadway musical or ...

Mary Courtney Ore: Well, Annie did come up. And my brother and sister, much to their dismay, would say yes, Annie, because they unfortunately had to spend a lot of their teenage years ... I was the youngest, but they had to listen to me sing Annie over and over again. And remember I told you I did not have the voice to go to Broadway.

But this may surprise you, but one of my favorite movies is One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Japhet De Oliveira: I know it well. So? Because?

Mary Courtney Ore: I mean, that's ... I think it was my first time seeing and watching someone and just the whole mental illness, which is something ... I was very young, of course, when that movie came out. But it was ... It just really ... It gutted me, the reality of mental illness and how it used to be treated so horrifically. And, yes, that has forever been one of my favorites.

Japhet De Oliveira: This is question 12A. I don't know if you knew it, but it's a brand-new question. Where did this deep, empathetic heart of yours come from?

Mary Courtney Ore: That's a great question, and I am not sure I've spent a whole lot of time on it. I think I know it's there.

Japhet De Oliveira: I can tell.

Mary Courtney Ore: My sister has it too. And she was an executive director of an HIV-AIDS organization and worked with those living with HIV and AIDS for many, many years and served so many people in need. And so, so proud of her. And she's really been my mentor for many things in life.

Japhet De Oliveira: Blessed.

Mary Courtney Ore: Yes. I'm very, very blessed. And our parents had tremendous compassion. My father was more outwardly with his compassion. He was a big man. 6'4". 200-and-some pounds. But he could cry, and usually at joyful things, but he wasn't afraid to show emotion. But they both were always helping those in need. And so, I grew up watching that. And I think when you are exposed to that, you just kind of ... I think it's in my DNA.

Japhet De Oliveira: I can tell. I can tell. 

Mary Courtney Ore: I don't think I had a choice in the matter.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. That's good. All right. That was 12A. Where next?

Mary Courtney Ore: From 12A to 38.

Japhet De Oliveira: 38. All right. If you needed encouragement ... This is great for you. If you needed encouragement, who would you call?

Mary Courtney Ore: My sister. Hands down.

Japhet De Oliveira: Does she call you as well?

Mary Courtney Ore: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's great. That's great. How did you foster ... This is 38A. How did you foster a wonderful relationship between siblings?

Mary Courtney Ore: My sister is seven years older, and I was the youngest. Growing up, I was the little brat girl in the way most of the time. Right? She's seven years older. My brother is four years older. It was a very colorful, challenging relationship growing up.

But when we lost her parents, I was 38, and she had always been there for me as the big sister, but she really stepped into a mother role when I've needed it because at 38 there's still times where you need your mom. I'm 61. I think about my mother every day, and there's been times where I need her. She really took on the role of big sister and mother. And so, for us, I think that's what made it such a gift, such a rich relationship, and we are very honest with each other. And there's times where, sure, we've hurt each other, but there isn't a human being on the planet that loves me any more.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow. That's beautiful. I hope that she gets to hear this.

Mary Courtney Ore: I hope she gets to hear this too.

Japhet De Oliveira: Great. All right. Where next?

Mary Courtney Ore: 25.

Japhet De Oliveira: 25. All right. Here we go. Share the most beautiful thing you've ever seen.

Mary Courtney Ore: The most beautiful thing I've ever seen. I feel like I keep going back to my parents dying, but when my father was dying, my sister tapped me, and it was a few days before he died. But she said, "Look," and I looked out the window, and it was the most gorgeous rainbow you've ever seen.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Mary Courtney Ore: And it just took my breath away. Until this day, of course, every time I see a rainbow-

Japhet De Oliveira: Put it all together.

Mary Courtney Ore: ... I think of that. And it's imprinted in my brain and in my heart.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's a beautiful memory. I like that.

Mary Courtney Ore: It is a good one.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. Where next?

Mary Courtney Ore: 75.

Japhet De Oliveira: 75. All right. Do you remember the very first thing that you bought with your own money? And, if so, what was it, and why?

Mary Courtney Ore: I'm sure it had to do something ... My sister always said I was a girly girl. I'm sure it had to do with makeup. Fashion.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sure. Why not?

Mary Courtney Ore: Shoes. I don't think I can remember the exact ... She probably could because she has a great memory, but I can assure you it was something totally useless and ...

Japhet De Oliveira: I wasn't thinking that, but fair enough.

Mary Courtney Ore: No, it was a frivolous purchase, one of many I went on to make in my life.

Japhet De Oliveira: We're entitled to a little bit of fun. That's fine. That's good. Good. Thank you, Mary Courtney. All right. Where next?

Mary Courtney Ore: 85.

Japhet De Oliveira: 85. All right. Describe a role model you aspire to be like.

Mary Courtney Ore: Well, again, that certainly goes back to my sister. This is going to be a boring podcast. I'm just-

Japhet De Oliveira: No, it's not. It's beautiful.

Mary Courtney Ore: ... going to keep talking about my sister.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's beautiful. What a testament.

Mary Courtney Ore: I mean, she is just the ... Well, she's one of the most intelligent people I've ever known. She's one of the bravest, courageous people I've ever known. She is married to a wonderful woman named Joy and who literally is joy. And my sister lived through, and of course it's still going on today, the utter discrimination and hate because of her sexual orientation. And she has faced it head on and has helped so many that have been discounted and marginalized. And so, I could go on and on about why she is my mentor and how she respects and treats other human beings.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's beautiful. Great testament. She is going to love this podcast. Mary Courtney, where next?

Mary Courtney Ore: 89.

Japhet De Oliveira: 89. All right. What is the most impactful no you've had to say recently?

Mary Courtney Ore: It was probably a conversation with a physician, and sometimes they have challenges in hearing the word no. But the decisions that I make in my current position ... My number one priority is the patients, and how is that decision going to impact them? And if I feel that it's not in the best interest ... I'm not talking medically because I would never tell a physician how to practice medicine. I'm not qualified to do so. But maybe something having to do with how we check patients in or out, or we could do this faster, or something like that.

It's not always about speed. Especially, again, in our specialty, it's about quality and safety and things like that. Sometimes I have to say no, and that used to be a very difficult thing when I became a director because having those difficult conversations with people is not easy, and most people do not like confrontation. I'm not a fan of it, but I'm not afraid to have the hard conversations.

Japhet De Oliveira: Good for you.

Mary Courtney Ore: And to be able to say no when I have to.

Japhet De Oliveira: Good for you. Good. Good. Mary Courtney, we have ... I was going to call you Courtney. Mary Courtney, we have two questions left. Where would you like to go?

Mary Courtney Ore: The top of the scale is 100?

Japhet De Oliveira: Mm-hmm.

Mary Courtney Ore: All right. Let's do 98 and then end at 100.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. 98 and then 100. Here it is. 98. What is one great thing that you are capable of achieving?

Mary Courtney Ore: Making other people feel better.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's good. That's good. That's good. All right. That's priceless. All right. Question 100. Mary Courtney, is there one question you would rather that I did not ask you?

Mary Courtney Ore: Honestly, I feel that there might've been a time, but again, I found some pretty amazing things about getting older. Is that-

Japhet De Oliveira: Tell us all.

Mary Courtney Ore: Right? I mean, the things that you used to worry about so much or care so much about, especially with yourself, it becomes so less important. I feel like maybe I should have some deep dark secrets, but I feel like I'm a very open book at this point in my life, and I don't think there's anything I have that I would say to you that's off limits.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, then give us this piece. With all your sage wisdom and stories that you've impacted, the sacred moments in care, to a young person thinking about a career choice, thinking about a future for them, what piece of advice would you give them to have the best life of purpose, of empathy, forward?

Mary Courtney Ore: Great question. And I feel like after the many years I have worked, I would say to them, find something that fills you up, fills your heart and your soul up. Is it going to be every day? Of course not. But for the majority of time that you're in the profession, that you're in your chosen work, make sure it fills you up because that's what I feel is one of the greatest things in life is to feel that you have ... That it makes you feel good, right? It makes you feel that you are serving a purpose.

I chose work that makes me feel like I am doing meaningful, important work. That was important to me, and that has sustained me and fulfilled me throughout the worst days of work.

You want to be able to look back on your work and feel like it was not just that you were doing good for others, but you also were doing good for you.

Japhet De Oliveira: That is really good.

Mary Courtney Ore: It's okay to do that.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes. That is good. I like it. Brilliant words, Mary Courtney. Thank you for sharing. And-

Mary Courtney Ore: Well, thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: ... thank you for taking the time with this podcast to be able to share so many of these very sacred moments that you've experienced in your life. This has been beautiful.

Mary Courtney Ore: Thank you. I've been very blessed.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, you have. You have, and you have blessed many as well and continue to do so.

Mary Courtney Ore: I sure hope so.

Japhet De Oliveira: I want to encourage people to do the same. Sit down with a friend. Ask them good questions. Listen to their stories. We are all transformed and changed for it. We're all better for it. It's good stuff.

Mary Courtney Ore: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: God bless you, Mary Courtney, and everybody else as well. Until we connect again.

Mary Courtney Ore: Bless you as well.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us for The Story & Experience Podcast. We invite you to read, watch, and submit your story and experience at AdventistHealth.org/story. The Story & Experience Podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health through the Office of Culture.