Sarah Gutierrez
Episode 135

Narrator: Welcome friends to another episode of The Story and Experience podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira with his guest today, and discover the moments that shape us, our families and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey friends. Welcome to another episode of the Story and Experience podcast. I'm delighted to connect online virtually with our guest in another location to where I am. Hence, they are online and it's going to be fantastic today. If you are brand new to the podcast, you should know that we have 100 questions. They become progressively more vulnerable and more open as we get close to 100, and our guest gets to choose where they want to go and what stories they want to share about their stories and experiences that shape their life into the leader that they are today. So with that, they are smiling. This is a good sign and I'm happy for that. We will begin. I'll ask the first 10 and then we'll hand over to you to pick a number. So could you tell us your name and could you tell us if anybody ever mispronounces it?

Sarah Gutierrez: Sure. My name is Sarah Gutierrez, and everybody always mispronounces my last name.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, yes, in my head I think I did it as well just now.

Sarah Gutierrez: You are perfectly fine.

Japhet De Oliveira: Could you say it again, the last name?

Sarah Gutierrez: Gutierrez.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, it's really good. Gutierrez. That's good. That's good. Well, I'm glad to call you Sarah.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yes, yes. Sarah with an H.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sarah with an H. That's good. So not Sara, but Sarah. That's great.

Sarah Gutierrez: Correct, correct. Although I think at one point when I first met my mother-in-law 30 years ago, she asked me how to spell my name and I said, "Oh, there's an H in it." And so about the first year, she was adorable. She spelled my name Sahara.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Sarah Gutierrez: Because she didn't know where the H was. And English is not her first language, it was adorable. I loved it.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's cute. That's really cute. Well, you clarified it for sure. So Sarah, what do you do for work?

Sarah Gutierrez: So I am currently the human resources director for Adventist Health Simi Valley.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, Simi Valley. Fantastic. I'm in another country, where is Simi Valley?

Sarah Gutierrez: Simi Valley is just above Los Angeles County in Ventura County. We are about 15 minutes from the beach in Malibu-ish area, but we don't really feel that beach breeze per se.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hidden by mountains?

Sarah Gutierrez: Hidden by mountains. And then just over the other side to the east is the San Fernando Valley.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. Well, good for you. I'm glad. And how long have you been working at Simi Valley?

Sarah Gutierrez: So I have been the current human resources director for a little bit over a year, since March of 2023. But before that, I was the senior human resources advisor at Glendale. And before that I was the leadership resident for human resources with Adventist Health.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. So you've been in human resources a long time.

Sarah Gutierrez: Here, at Adventist Health? Yes. Five years altogether. More than 20 years, yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, okay. So what drew you into human resources?

Sarah Gutierrez: Well, nowadays, people choose human resources. Back in the day you fell into... Yes, you were chosen. You were one of the chosen few who decided to take this on. And it really turned into, I worked for a very small company that needed somebody to wear multiple hats, and one of those hats was payroll and onboarding and employee relations and workers' compensation, and it just grew from there.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's fantastic. Well, I'm glad for that. I'm glad you're doing the role that you're doing right now.

Sarah Gutierrez: Me too.

Japhet De Oliveira: Let me ask you this. Where were you born?

Sarah Gutierrez: I am born and raised in Los Angeles, California. I am one of the few.

Japhet De Oliveira: One of the few. So now, when you grew up in LA what did you imagine you were going to grow up to be when you were a kid?

Sarah Gutierrez: If you were to ask my mother, she probably would've said I was going to be a lawyer.

Japhet De Oliveira: Is that because you argumentative or you read a lot, why a lawyer?

Sarah Gutierrez: Maybe because I was always wanting to give my opinion or wanted to hear my side of the story.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great.

Sarah Gutierrez: But what ended up happening is I decided when I went to college at La Sierra University, I was wonderful in all my classes that had to do with psychology so I went for a clinical psychology degree. And let me tell you, I use that every single day.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, yeah. No, I bet. Hey, that's amazing. That's pretty good. Now let me ask you something about personality. If people were to describe you, would they describe you as an introvert or an extrovert, and would you agree?

Sarah Gutierrez: They would definitely describe me as an extrovert, and I would definitely agree with them. I do not have a problem walking into a room and having a conversation with just about anybody. If you're familiar with the Clifton Strength Finders.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes.

Sarah Gutierrez: My first strength is woo.

Japhet De Oliveira: Woo, woo, woo.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right. And communication. So when we're going out in places, I sit with my family and if it's an Uber, I'm sitting in the front seat so I can have a conversation with the driver. So nobody has a problem talking to Sarah for the most part, and I have no problem talking to them.

Japhet De Oliveira: When you get on an airplane, do you take off your headphones just to engage in conversation?

Sarah Gutierrez: For the most part, yes. It's like you've seen me on the plane, haven't you?

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. That's great. Hey, are you an early riser or late night owl?

Sarah Gutierrez: Can I say both?

Japhet De Oliveira: You can, unfortunately, yes.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yeah. So I probably put my head on the pillow and go to sleep around 12:30 AM.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh my. Okay.

Sarah Gutierrez: And I'll wake up between 5:00 and 6:00 o'clock every morning.

Japhet De Oliveira: This sounds like a really good life.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yes, yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Have you've been doing this long, sleeping so little?

Sarah Gutierrez: Yeah, probably. Probably for about five years.

Japhet De Oliveira: I wonder what changed five years ago. Oh, see me...

Sarah Gutierrez: No, it's just because I know that I got what's coming up for the day. What's coming up for the day.

Japhet De Oliveira: But you love your job.

Sarah Gutierrez: I do. I do love my job.

Japhet De Oliveira: You love working with people, so it's fantastic. Hey, it's good. This morning when you woke up at the crack of dawn, what was the first thought that went through your mind?

Sarah Gutierrez: What does today bring?

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right.

Sarah Gutierrez: What does today be? And can I get out of bed quiet enough that I don't wake my dogs?

Japhet De Oliveira: And are you successful with that?

Sarah Gutierrez: No. Never.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Never.

Sarah Gutierrez: Never, Japhet. Never.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sorry, Sarah.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yep. They hear me a mile away.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Then in the morning when you get up, your first drink of the day? Is it like water? Is it coffee? Is it a liquid green smoothie? What do you have?

Sarah Gutierrez: It is fully leaded black coffee.

Japhet De Oliveira: Black coffee. Okay.

Sarah Gutierrez: No cream, no sugar. It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold. That is my first drink of choice.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Like a gallon?

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh, no, thank God no, just a measly 16 ounces.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. All right. That's good. That's good. All right, that's good. That's good. All right, here's a leadership question for you. Are you a backseat driver?

Sarah Gutierrez: I am maybe a passenger seat driver.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh. Who leans over?

Sarah Gutierrez: Yeah. Or what's that indication light on your... Are you paying attention to that blinker or that gasoline gauge? I would say I am more of a, I allow, especially my team to really drive unless they have questions or concerns or need guidance. But I like them to work through it first whenever they have some challenges, but I also immediately will step in and be that resource for them.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. Good. Well, the floor is open now, Sarah. So where would you like to go next? Which number?

Sarah Gutierrez: I'll go one more. Let's go with 11.

Japhet De Oliveira: 11. All right. Tell us about the most adventurous food or meal you've ever eaten.

Sarah Gutierrez: Most adventurous food or meal I've ever eaten. So I was a student missionary on the island of Guam about 147 years ago, and it's just very different food there than what I was used to being born and raised in Los Angeles. And I was barely 20 at the time and really had to change my understanding of plates that are being put in front of me and the type of food that I'm going to be given. And I fell in love with so much variety of food and so it was really delicious to enjoy what was being placed in front of me rather than, oh my gosh, what is that?

Japhet De Oliveira: Is it still alive?

Sarah Gutierrez: Right. Well, and being born and raised as an Adventist, we were usually raised vegetarian. And that's not really the case in our Micronesian islands. They do eat meat for the most part, chicken especially, and different ways of cooking chicken than I've ever seen before.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay, great. That's great.

Sarah Gutierrez: And so I was just like, that's a feather, but it was delicious and just turning around and when in Rome.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's really good. A good experience. All right, that was at 11. So where next?

Sarah Gutierrez: How about 17?

Japhet De Oliveira: 17, all right. Share what day is most special to you on the calendar and why? In the entire calendar, one day most special. Why?

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh, that's an easy one, Japhet. That is July 1st.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. And July one, because?

Sarah Gutierrez: That was the day that my twins were born.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, that's fantastic.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. Oh my goodness. You have twins?

Sarah Gutierrez: I have twins. I have boy girl twins. They just turned 19.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yes, yes.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh my.

Sarah Gutierrez: It's exactly how you think it is, Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well done. Well done. You said five years.

Sarah Gutierrez: Really it's been 19 years.

Japhet De Oliveira: Five years from 19. I'm like, I know where that was.

Sarah Gutierrez: Exactly. Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, well congratulations. I'm happy for you.

Sarah Gutierrez: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right, that was 17. Where next?

Sarah Gutierrez: Let's do 27.

Japhet De Oliveira: 27. All right. Bring us into your kitchen. You're cooking a special meal. What would it be?

Sarah Gutierrez: Breakfast or dinner?

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, you pick. Oh, that's good.

Sarah Gutierrez: So breakfast, what I'd like to say is my specialty is I do beef chorizo, egg and potato burritos with all the fixings and everything and flour tortillas. And I have made it for my department. I have made it for special occasions and it's always a great breakfast food. And I can make them small or I can make them a two fisted burrito, of beef, chorizo and egg. Yeah. Now if it were dinner...

Japhet De Oliveira: A religious experience.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yes, exactly. Exactly. If it were dinner, it would either be enchiladas or chicken posole.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. That's good. That's good. That's good. Do you like to cook?

Sarah Gutierrez: I do when I have the time and there's no rush and I don't have somebody saying, "Is it ready yet?"

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, they're 19 now.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right, right, right. Well, thankfully they're away at school, so it's not as often as it used to be.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. All right. Where next after 27?

Sarah Gutierrez: Let's do 29.

Japhet De Oliveira: 29. Oh. Share three things that make you instantly happy.

Sarah Gutierrez: Getting a phone call from my kids.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, yeah.

Sarah Gutierrez: Since they are away at school, immediately, if they call, well one, if they call them like, "Oh my gosh, what's wrong?" But really if they call, I get very excited that they're there. When I see someone else happy because I was part of a journey for them. I don't know if that makes sense, but when folks are going through something and if I'm able to help or do something for them and I feel that they have been able to exhale and take a breath and find their happiness again, I'm immediately satisfied. Third really is the security I feel, I've been with my husband for 30 years and I still feel that way when I'm with him, so that's makes me happy.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right, I have to ask, I have to ask Sarah.

Sarah Gutierrez: Sure.

Japhet De Oliveira: How did you guys meet? That was question 27, a bonus.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right? We were both 18 and we had summer jobs at Universal City Walk and we both worked at the same place. And it was a summer job and we've been together for 30 years now.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic.

Sarah Gutierrez: Since 1994.

Japhet De Oliveira: Did you ask him out or did he ask you out?

Sarah Gutierrez: He chased me till I let him catch me.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. I can't wait to hear him on this podcast. "Wait a second."

Sarah Gutierrez: That was not the plan.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's great. That's awesome. All right, where next?

Sarah Gutierrez: Let's see. 35.

Japhet De Oliveira: 35. Oh, share a special interest or unique talent that you have.

Sarah Gutierrez: A unique talent or special interest. So I might be quietly a fantasy fiction nerd. I love Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, Wheel of Time is my go-to, I've read all 15 books about six times each.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, my.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right?

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, you are die hard.

Sarah Gutierrez: I am a little bit, it is a unique talent. My husband would say that I can read a book over and over again, cover to cover, and then start it once again. But I do enjoy fantasy fiction and putting on Star Wars, putting on Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time is really amazing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Now I've heard that fish have a very short term memory, and so is this something for you that you read a book like, whoa, I had no idea that was in there?

Sarah Gutierrez: Well, I have surprised myself when I'm rereading a book and I'm like, I just read this six months ago and I don't remember this taking place before. You know how quickly you read and forget.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. That's great. That's great. Well, six months is longer than a fish, so well done.

Sarah Gutierrez: Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. All right. Where next then?

Sarah Gutierrez: 49.

Japhet De Oliveira: 49. All right. Oh, what are you currently learning about and why?

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh, well, as a human resources director, I am always learning and really trying to have greater understanding for new healthcare law, minimum wage law, which just happened for us at Adventist Health. And just understanding restructuring of our wages and different laws that affect us on a daily basis because they do change very often so it's a constant learning.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. So do you take extra courses all the time or are you just doing this extra reading?

Sarah Gutierrez: Extra reading, a lot of nighttime at home.

Japhet De Oliveira: Until 12:30.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right, right. A lot of resource gathering from different folks in Adventist Health system because we have so many brilliant minds here that talk about these things on a daily or consistent basis that allows us reach out to other HRDs and directors in the system and really work together on the best way for understanding a new law.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. That's great. Good. All right. Where next? That was 49.

Sarah Gutierrez: 57.

Japhet De Oliveira: 57. Oh. If you had to endorse one brand, what would it be and why?

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh, wow. That is a hard one. If I were to endorse one brand, what would it be and why? Oh, gosh. I know I'm going to get some flack for this.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay.

Sarah Gutierrez: I probably would endorse something like ChatGPT, AI.

Japhet De Oliveira: I wonder why.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yeah. I've been so impressed by some of the things that comes out of that. I'm always asking it questions and it really does give me some great answers. And that is very interesting, the things that come out of AI these days.

Japhet De Oliveira: It already knows you.

Sarah Gutierrez: And it learns from you, Japhet. Did you know that it learns from you?

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Sarah Gutierrez: The more you ask it, the more it understands what you're asking it.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, happy for you. Good. May the force be with you.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right. And also with you.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's coming. Yeah, I know. I know. It is coming everywhere. It's everywhere already, but we just pretend it's not there.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right, so where next after 57?

Sarah Gutierrez: 63.

Japhet De Oliveira: 63. All right. Oh, tell us about a time when you felt lost.

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh, now you're going to get personal Japhet, but that's okay. That's what this is about. My mom passed away in December of 2009, and as an only child, a lot of the decision-making really fell on me. I was already grown, had children, and so really it was trying to be all things to all people at that time and really feeling lost, for lack of a better word, and not knowing where to turn or what to turn to. And really what I did is I just based my support on my family and God. And just really had I not had my husband and my children, I probably would not be as grounded as I was at that time because the feeling of loss, because my mom was a single parent, she raised me on her own. And so it was really just her and I. So that was definitely a time of feeling that lost feeling.

Japhet De Oliveira: You grew up with a single mom, right?

Sarah Gutierrez: I did.

Japhet De Oliveira: To lose somebody who that's special to you...

Sarah Gutierrez: Yeah, it was just her and I. Yeah, it was just her and I.

Japhet De Oliveira: There are lots of people who are in a similar situation. What advice would you give them?

Sarah Gutierrez: For folks who have that one parent and that one parent only, she was my best friend and she allowed me wings to fly as much as it tore her apart because she was letting go of the only person that she had in her life too when I went to college and did all these things. And if I were to give some advice to those in a similar situation, don't forget about them. Always come back to them because they need you just as much as you need them.

Japhet De Oliveira: What was your mom's name?

Sarah Gutierrez: Rosalinda.

Japhet De Oliveira: Rosalinda. All right. So can you share with us one of your favorite memories of Rosalinda, of your mom?

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh, absolutely. So my mom was also a nurse. She was a nurse with UCLA her entire career and she worked up to three jobs just to put me through private school and really give me...

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh my goodness.

Sarah Gutierrez: The best chance that she could but she was also a real parent, so she would come to field trips and be a part of my school life just because she wanted to make sure that I felt I had some type of representation.

Japhet De Oliveira: Look at that.

Sarah Gutierrez: And so I think I was in third or fourth grade and she was on a field trip with us and she had had no sleep. And so we're at a park and the teacher tells her, "Okay, Mommy Rosie", because that's what they called her. So "Mama Rosie. Okay, take the class over to the bathroom, right over there, straight through those trees. It goes straight down that path. Straight, straight." And she's like, "That one right there?" They're like, "Yes, go straight down that path." She's like, "Okay." So my mom lines up all the children in a straight line and proceeds to wind around the entire park back and forth getting to the restroom because the teacher kept insisting to go straight. And my mom's like, nope, we're going to go back and forth, winding around. And I'm just like, that's my mother. That's her. And I'm like, giggling. And all the kids are like, "Where are we going?" That's one of probably my favorite... She had a very great sense of humor.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good. That's really good. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. All right, thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yeah, thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: Where next?

Sarah Gutierrez: Did we do 75?

Japhet De Oliveira: No.

Sarah Gutierrez: Okay.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay, so you want to go next to 75?

Sarah Gutierrez: 75.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. Do you remember the very first item that you purchased with your own money? If so, what was it and why did you get it?

Sarah Gutierrez: I don't remember a small first purchase with my own money, but with my own very first big purchase with my own money was when I was still at Universal City Walk during my summer job and I bought a car. I had to buy a car because I was going to go back to college and I needed a way to get back and forth. And so I bought a little tiny Toyota Tercel, green, two door. Back then probably costs $8,000, now it would be $30,000. And I was like, how am I going to make $150 payment a month? But back then inflation, it's like 600 now. But yeah, a car was my really big first purchase.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow, that's great. That's great. That's cool. Green.

Sarah Gutierrez: Green, yes. Very bright green.

Japhet De Oliveira: Did you have it for a long time?

Sarah Gutierrez: Very bright green. I did. I cried when I let her go. I did. She got me all through college and finally too, I gave her up about right before my kids were born.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, wow.

Sarah Gutierrez: Because I needed a bigger car because there were twins coming.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's cool. That's cool. All right, that was 75. Where next?

Sarah Gutierrez: Okay. How many more do we have?

Japhet De Oliveira: I'll let you know.

Sarah Gutierrez: Okay. Oh, okay. Let's go to the very top. Let's go with 100.

Japhet De Oliveira: Alrighty. Okay. All right. Tell us about one question that you just don't want to answer.

Sarah Gutierrez: That I don't want to answer? Oh. A question that I don't want to answer.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Sarah Gutierrez: I don't know. I'm a pretty open book, Japhet. I'm a pretty open book unless you ask me a question about somebody else, then I'm going to say no.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. So that's a question. That's a question. If I ask you a question about somebody else, somebody else because of HR, is that why?

Sarah Gutierrez: Yes. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Hey, that's great. That's great. That's a good value to have.

Sarah Gutierrez: Yeah, your secret is safe with me.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, that's good. That's good. Confession every day.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right, exactly. Happens more than you think, Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, people need people, right? Yeah. People need places to be able to process something and sometimes we keep it inside us. We don't say it out loud, it doesn't do us any good.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right. Well, and that's why that psychology degree probably comes in handy on those days.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, that's good. All right. After 100, where next?

Sarah Gutierrez: 15.

Japhet De Oliveira: 15. Okay, here we go. Oh, what's one thing that you always misplace?

Sarah Gutierrez: Wow. My mind. Well, I am often losing my phone even though I have my phone with me at all times. I have a relationship with my phone. Let's be honest, most people do these days and I am always misplacing it at home, not at work. At home I'm always misplacing it. I don't know if it's in the car or in the kitchen or in the living room. Sometimes I found it in the garage. I don't know what's happening, Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira: Do you have an iWatch as well?

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh, well, that's also a moment of contention, right? Because I have an Android phone.

Japhet De Oliveira: Sorry, what's that?

Sarah Gutierrez: Exactly. And a Samsung watch.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well, now we know what to pray for.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right. Right. The most stubborn person you'll find is somebody who refuses to go to am iPhone. Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: You just have too much capital, Sarah. All right. All right. That was 15, so where next now?

Sarah Gutierrez: Let's do 19.

Japhet De Oliveira: 19. All right. Oh, what's your exercise routine?

Sarah Gutierrez: Did I mention I'm an HRD?

Japhet De Oliveira: Is it a mental exercise?

Sarah Gutierrez: Well, so for a long time my favorite workouts were cross country running. I have always done long distance running since I was a young lass. And over time my knees betrayed me and I could no longer do that long distance, although I did run two LA marathons so I'm pretty glad I was able to at least do that. So now it's mostly the treadmill or those workout videos that you have for maybe 30 to 45 minutes because knees give way after about 40 years plus when you're a runner from high school. Right?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, totally.

Sarah Gutierrez: My other exercise is sleeping when I can.

Japhet De Oliveira: Seem to be doing well with that.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right? As you can tell.

Japhet De Oliveira: Well Sarah, we have time for two final numbers.

Sarah Gutierrez: Okay, let's do 55.

Japhet De Oliveira: 55. All right, here we go. 55 it is... Oh, share about something that frightens you.

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh. So as I mentioned, I have 19-year-old twins and they are both away at college so I have the 'mom heart' when my son goes to San Jose State and my daughter goes to UC Santa Cruz. And I have been so lucky that they're only an hour apart from each other but my fear is are they okay? Are they doing okay? Is mom's voice the voice in their head? Are they making good decisions? If they're not making good decisions, are they going to be okay? So I fear that, you always want to protect your child from everything, including life experiences, but you got to let them have them anyway.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, no, it's true. True. It's very true. You do. Do we? We need to.

Sarah Gutierrez: Right, right. I really want to try not to be a helicopter parent.

Japhet De Oliveira: That is so much fun.

Sarah Gutierrez: It's so much easier. It's easier on your heart when there are always eyes on, but you got to let them have those wings so that they can fly.

Japhet De Oliveira: No, that's true. That's true. All right, Sarah, thank you. Last number. Where do you go for last number?

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh. 99. How about? Yeah.

Japhet De Oliveira: 99? Oh. What is the most difficult truth that you've ever had to tell?

Sarah Gutierrez: Oh. The most difficult truth that I ever had to tell. That I had to tell somebody that I didn't want them in my life. And that was for my own mental health and it was a very hard decision to make because they were family and as much as I loved them, it was very hard for me to force that truth out of me and into the universe and into the open and be able to say goodbye to someone who I'd known my whole life.

Japhet De Oliveira: Setting good boundaries is hard.

Sarah Gutierrez: It's so hard. And as somebody who has woo for their first...

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, of course. You pull people in. Right? Yeah.

Sarah Gutierrez: And you want to be a part of people's life and their experience and their journey. And when you have to let that go, what's this phrase? Let go and let God. It really forces your hand.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Sarah, it has been an absolute privilege to be able to talk to you. Thank you.

Sarah Gutierrez: Thank you for inviting me.

Japhet De Oliveira: Thank you for sharing.

Sarah Gutierrez: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: It's great. I want to encourage people to think about this. Just the stories you had about your mother and stories of your children and your life and experiences. It's wonderful to see people who become what God made them to be.

Sarah Gutierrez: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: And as you said, you fell into it, but it's like...

Sarah Gutierrez: This is what I was meant to do, Japhet.

Japhet De Oliveira: Exactly. Exactly, right? So I want to encourage people to do the same thing. Sit down with a friend, ask them good questions, learn. We are changed by this and we are better people for it. Sarah, it was an absolute privilege. Thank you again. God bless.

Sarah Gutierrez: Thank you so much. All right, have a good one. Thank you.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us for the Story and Experience podcast. We invite you to read, watch, and submit your story and experience at adventisthealth.org/story. The Story and Experience podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health through the Office of Culture.