Zachary Barnard
Episode 174

Narrator: Welcome friends to another episode of the Story & Experience Podcast. Join your host, Japhet De Oliveira with his guest today and discover the moments that shape us, our families and communities.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, welcome friends to another episode of the Story & Experience Podcast. I am absolutely delighted over technology to be able to connect with this particular guest and excited that you guys get to hear their voice. So if you're brand new to the podcast, we have 100 questions. They progressively become more vulnerable, closer to 100, and they're really about stories and experiences of this particular person that shaped them into the leader that they are today. I'm going to ask the first 10, and then we're going to hand over to them and they get to pick numbers and decide where they want to go. Let me ask, first of all, could you tell us your name and does anybody ever mispronounce it?

Zachary Barnard: My name is Zachary Barnard. People usually a lot of times will say Bernard. An E instead of an A. So that's a lot of times where they get...

Japhet De Oliveira: Do you ever correct them, Zach?

Zachary Barnard: No. It doesn't really matter.

Japhet De Oliveira: What about if you're doing some kind of grand presentation, do you correct them then?

Zachary Barnard: No. In reality, they still know who I am. I mean, pronunciation doesn't really matter.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow, that's good. Brilliant. Zach, what do you do for work?

Zachary Barnard: So I'm a neurosurgeon in the Los Angeles area.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow, okay. Neurosurgeon, something pretty easy.

Zachary Barnard: Yeah, it just takes some time, but other than that...

Japhet De Oliveira: All right, we've got to ask, how did you end up in this particular specialty and what drew you into it?

Zachary Barnard: So it all started off after my undergraduate at University of Massachusetts. I did some research with a surgical oncologist and I enjoyed the research part of it, but then I got a chance to shadow him. So I got a chance to actually see what surgery was like and that got me very interested because I could do medicine and surgery. After that time, I went out to Boston because I had to take some more courses for medical school. I worked with a neurosurgeon, Will Curry at Mass General Hospital, and that's really where I got interested in neurosurgery over those two years.

Japhet De Oliveira: Now it takes a lot longer to qualify and to train for this than most specialties?

Zachary Barnard: It takes a little bit longer. So typically all neurosurgery residencies are seven years. That's a requirement. And then you can do a variable number of fellowships afterwards or during your residency. I did one fellowship during my residency and another fellowship after my residency.

Japhet De Oliveira: My late wife passed away with a glioblastoma, so I got to meet her surgeon, spend a lot of time with him, and he talked about having 30,000 patients. How many patients have you had in your life?

Zachary Barnard: I've interacted with numerous patients throughout my residency, fellowships. I mean, you see 10, 15 patients a day.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's amazing.

Zachary Barnard: Over years and years. So it's a lot of patients. It is.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, it is. So are you constantly learning? I mean, this is a... How do you...

Zachary Barnard: It's a lot of constant learning. It's learning from what other people do, it's learning from the medical literature, it's learning from what you do. Nobody's perfect, nothing's perfect, and our treatments keep evolving all the time. So having to keep up with all of that really takes some time, but you have to keep that learning aspect to it in order to provide the best care to people.

Japhet De Oliveira: What's something recently that you discovered new and you're just really excited to do?

Zachary Barnard: So I do a lot of endovascular care. So where we go inside the blood vessels to treat blood vessel issues in the brain, and we constantly have new technologies coming out all the time.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Zachary Barnard: Just in 2016 we started doing strokes. We never really had good literature for strokes until 2016. So now we treat a lot of strokes. So we can actually turn back time by... Someone comes in not being able to move one side and they pull the clot out and they'll be able to move that side again.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Zachary Barnard: That's one of the biggest technological advancements, I think, in neurosurgery over the past 10 years.

Japhet De Oliveira: Can I ask you a hard question?

Zachary Barnard: Sure.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. So you must have a lot of success. What do you do with things when it's not?

Zachary Barnard: So in neurosurgery, it's very different than some specialties, whereas you treat someone's say hip or knee with a knee replacement, they go home. We have a lot of patients that that's just not necessarily the case. We do a lot of patients that are in traumas with traumatic brain injuries. We treat a lot of patients with glioblastoma, such as your wife, which I'm sorry, that's a very difficult disease. And we do our best to treat, but despite that, we still can't solve the problem. And it happens in a lot of our specialty. A lot of times we're trying to delay what is going to happen or we're trying to make patients more comfortable. But we do see a lot of patients that in the end succumb to their disease and it's something that we try to learn to deal with. I think a lot of it is, we deal with it by avoidance.

Japhet De Oliveira: Interesting.

Zachary Barnard: We just learn that this is what daily life is like.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, that's heavy. But Zach, thank you for sharing that and thank you for all that you do because it is an incredible field that you're in. So, practical question here, are you an early riser or late night owl?

Zachary Barnard: I am a late night owl.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. What's late? What's late for you?

Zachary Barnard: Usually around 1, 1:30 or something like that.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really? Okay.

Zachary Barnard: I have kids, so kids go to bed, then I get to exercise and then I get to finish some work and then go to bed.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. What's your exercise routine?

Zachary Barnard: So my exercise routine for the past, let's see, four years or so, five years, since the pandemic started, my wife got a Peloton. So I've been doing Peloton pretty much every day since then, so about four years.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh my goodness. So you must be one of those people with 2,000 races or 3,000 rides or something like that, right?

Zachary Barnard: Yeah, I have about... So the only days I don't do it is when I'm not in town. So I have somewhere around 1,400, but right now I have 141 week streak.

Japhet De Oliveira: Look at you. That's impressive, man.

Zachary Barnard: There was one 9 day period I went away for vacation, so that broke it. So I'm up to 141 now. We'll see where it goes.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. Now, when you woke up this morning, first thought that went through your mind today. What was that?

Zachary Barnard: I mean, what happened with the election results?

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay, we're recording this-

Zachary Barnard: That's pretty much everyone's thoughts this morning.

Japhet De Oliveira: For all the podcasts being recorded today, there was an election in the United States. Yes. But these will be timeless, so that's fine. That's good. All right. Hey, good for you. And then do you have coffee, water, liquid green smoothie, tea? What's your first drink of the day?

Zachary Barnard: So I started probably around four or five years ago, drinking a lot of matcha tea. So in terms of the ups and downs, it's a lot less than coffee. So it's a nice smooth up, a nice smooth down. So I just feel like it's nice and a little bit easier. And there's also a funness to it. You try different types of matcha tea, similar to different coffees, but there's techniques to mixing, all that kind of stuff. So it gives you a little bit of something to work on.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Hey, I've got a funny question that just hit me right now. I was just thinking neurosurgeon and Grey's Anatomy. And so do you have music that you play in the background in surgery?

Zachary Barnard: Yeah. I mean, we'll play a variety of music. A lot of times I leave it up to the staff in the room. And the reason being is because a lot of people use music to make themselves feel comfortable, be in a better place. And for me, the best way for the OR to run well is for the other people to be comfortable. I'm very used to being uncomfortable, so I don't have a problem with that. So what I want is everyone else to feel comfortable while I'm taking care of the patient in the operating room so they feel okay doing their jobs.

Japhet De Oliveira: Look at you. All right. Thanks for sharing that. Great. Okay. So where were you born, Zach?

Zachary Barnard: I was born in western Massachusetts, so a little hospital called Cooley Dickinson. I grew up in Goshen, Massachusetts and moved to Williamsburg, right next door. Yeah, and I lived there-

Japhet De Oliveira: And when you were a kid in Williamsburg or Goshen, what did you imagine you were going to grow up to be?

Zachary Barnard: I never really knew exactly what I was going to be. I always thought maybe something science wise or an astronaut, those kinds of things. Exploration and innovation, those are kind of the things that I really enjoy.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hey, that's fantastic. Good for you, man. Well, I'm glad you chose medicine and all your patients are glad as well. Hey, if people described your personality, would they say you were an introvert or an extrovert and would you agree?

Zachary Barnard: No, I'm definitely more of an extrovert and I agree with that.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Now here's a leadership question and then I'm going to hand over to you. Are you a backseat driver?

Zachary Barnard: I am not a backseat driver. I am much more of a on the roof kind of driver.

Japhet De Oliveira: On the roof. Okay.

Zachary Barnard: Much more forward pace. I'd much rather kind of lead situations. I feel like I have the ability to control and help out and make sure that everybody is getting their fulfilled role within the group.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. All right, Zach, the floor is open. Where would you like to go, between 11 and 100?

Zachary Barnard: Let's see. So let's start out with 13.

Japhet De Oliveira: 13, okay. Walk us through the ideal end of your day.

Zachary Barnard: The ideal end of my day would be hanging out with my three kids, my wife, enjoying the day, maybe taking a walk, having a good dinner, and just relaxing all of us.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh yeah, that's good. I like that a lot. Would you have some matcha tea as well?

Zachary Barnard: Potentially, yeah. Absolutely.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right, that's great. All right, where next now? Where would you like to go?

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 19.

Japhet De Oliveira: 19. Oh, actually, I asked you this question already. What is your exercise routine? You did it already, so it's great. Go Peloton.

Zachary Barnard: So it's actually now I've evolved to rowing.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really?

Zachary Barnard: So I row and Peloton.

Japhet De Oliveira: Do you alternate between the two or?

Zachary Barnard: No, so I do both.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, wow.

Zachary Barnard: So I do rowing and then cycling afterwards.

Japhet De Oliveira: Look at you. All right, it's good. Good. Double whammy for Peloton.

Zachary Barnard: Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: We should get-

Zachary Barnard: Well actually Hydro.

Japhet De Oliveira: Hydro.

Zachary Barnard: I use Hydro.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, okay. Don't tell them.

Zachary Barnard: Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. All right, so where next after the 19?

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 21.

Japhet De Oliveira: All right. Share the best compliment you've ever received.

Zachary Barnard: So I'd say this is probably one that we get every once in a while, and it's really the fact that, hey, you saved my life. And that's something that... That's really why we do what we do. We're able to really have an impact on someone's life at the end of the day. And you go home every day and I see, oh, what my life is like. And I enjoy my life. I enjoy my family, and really my goal is to get someone back to that point. It's not always 100%, but to enjoy family, to enjoy just being around people. That's really kind of what it's all about. So if I have that ability to do that for someone, then that's pretty good.

Japhet De Oliveira: Doctor, that's great. Love that. Thank you, Zach. All right, that was 21. So where next, sir?

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 27.

Japhet De Oliveira: 27. Oh, okay. Bring us into the kitchen. You are preparing a special meal. What would it be?

Zachary Barnard: This is a very loaded question. I do a fair amount of cooking. So why don't you pick a genre and I'll tell you what I'll make.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, really? Okay. All right, let's go French.

Zachary Barnard: Oh, French. Okay. So I would probably go with a duck confit. That's something that I enjoy. I've made it a few times, not a bunch. I mean, it takes a little bit of time, but that would probably be one of my number one things to go from there. And then probably, definitely a soufflé afterwards.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh wow. Okay. All right, this is good. So where did you get the love for cooking?

Zachary Barnard: I don't know. It kind of very similar to research. Research, you're doing a bunch of experiments, you're trying new things. Even when I was younger, I would always do a bunch of cooking, but I feel like its just fun to try new things, explore new things, grow new things in the garden, and try doing that. I'd say probably my most recent thing that I've been perfecting is really kind of more of a French style omelet or a Japanese style omelet. So it's really-

Japhet De Oliveira: You've got to unpack that for us so we know what the difference is. Go on.

Zachary Barnard: So it's very much, think of scrambled eggs wrapped into an omelet. So it's like the inside is more gooey, soft, and the outside is a thin kind of rim of what you would think of is more of the actual omelet. But it's very simple, but very technical. You have to have proper temperatures of the pan. You have to have the right kind of non-stick to the pan.

Japhet De Oliveira: I like this.

Zachary Barnard: I do a lot of the... So I don't really use a butter. I use kind of like a Wagyu beef tallow to really make it... Kind of have that extra little style of flavor. And then I have a variety of salts. So one that I use pretty significantly in these is really just a Japanese sea salt.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. Thanks, Zach.

Zachary Barnard: You haven't even gotten into the different kinds of things.

Japhet De Oliveira: I know. I use beef Wagyu. Yeah.

Zachary Barnard: Great for high heat cooking.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. No, it's great man. I love that. Good. All right, where next?

Zachary Barnard: Let's try 31.

Japhet De Oliveira: 31. All right. Oh, well this is super for you. Tell us about someone you'd love to eat dinner with. The sky's the limit. Anybody in the past? Anybody in the world? Yeah, if you could have dinner with this one person, who would it be?

Zachary Barnard: Anyone in the past?

Japhet De Oliveira: Or today.

Zachary Barnard: I would say first and foremost, I would just want to have dinner with my wife.

Japhet De Oliveira: When she listens to this podcast, Zach, she will say, "Great, well done."

Zachary Barnard: With three kids it's always hard to kind of get out and do that individually, but that's something that we love to do together. So that would be great. If it wouldn't be my wife, then probably, if it could be in the past, it would probably be Leonardo da Vinci.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, wow.

Zachary Barnard: That would be someone to meet.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. That's fantastic.

Zachary Barnard: Very interesting to see.

Japhet De Oliveira: I like that. All right, where next?

Zachary Barnard: Let's try 32.

Japhet De Oliveira: 32. All right. If you were featured on the local news, near Adventist Health White Memorial, the local news comes to you and says, "Hey." What would they be talking to you about?

Zachary Barnard: They would hopefully be talking to me about, I'd say what changes can we make in healthcare to improve it for our society? Unfortunately, we spend a lot of money on healthcare, but when you look across the world, we're not doing as well as we should for spending a lot of our GDP on healthcare. Unfortunately.

Japhet De Oliveira: Okay. Good for you. All right, where next after that?

Zachary Barnard: Let's try 39.

Japhet De Oliveira: This is funny for you. If you didn't need to sleep, what would you do with the extra time?

Zachary Barnard: If I didn't need to sleep-

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, if you didn't need to sleep.

Zachary Barnard: ...and my kids didn't need to sleep, then we would all just have fun together. That's for sure. If I individually didn't need to sleep, I'd probably spend more time doing a lot of the tasks that I want to do that I don't have the time to do. I have a bunch of woodworking projects to build some outdoor furniture for, and just different tasks I'd want to complete.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. Hey, tell me with your kids, what's the best thing you love doing with your kids?

Zachary Barnard: So one thing that we enjoy doing together, which has been one of my passions since I was growing up, is skiing. So I've been a certified ski instructor for over 20 years now, and my kids started skiing when they were little and we usually try to take about 20 days a year or so and go skiing, outdoors, have fun, just enjoying each other as a family.

Japhet De Oliveira: So let me get this right, you are a neurosurgeon, you make French soufflés and you're a ski instructor. Okay. All right.

Zachary Barnard: You got to keep life varied, and try different things.

Japhet De Oliveira: And carpenter, right? You're building your own furniture. Okay. All right, sure. I don't think you need more time, Zach. All right, where next?

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 41.

Japhet De Oliveira: 41. All right, here we go. Oh, what are you excited about in life right now?

Zachary Barnard: Right now? So probably what I'm most consumed with now is we're building our comprehensive stroke center at Adventist White Memorial. And I think building that, getting it together for the ability to treat patients in our area. Currently, there's no real comprehensive stroke center in seven miles in downtown Los Angeles.

Japhet De Oliveira: Wow.

Zachary Barnard: So these patients are having to go much farther away and not necessarily getting care in their area. So really working towards that being done, which hopefully should be Q1 2025, we should be getting ambulance runs.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's fantastic. Well, and seven miles in downtown LA is a long time. It's a long distance.

Zachary Barnard: It's a very big distance.

Japhet De Oliveira: There's a big distance.

Zachary Barnard: I mean, that's millions of people.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. That's amazing. Oh, I'm excited for you guys. I'm excited for you as well. That's great.

Zachary Barnard: Thank you.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. All right, where next after that?

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 45.

Japhet De Oliveira: 45. When people come to you for help, what are they usually asking for?

Zachary Barnard: Variety of things. No, I mean, people come to me for a variety of issues, whether it's related to the brain, whether it's related to a tumor, whether it's related to a vascular problem, whether it's related to a spine issue. We have a variety of patients. I think one thing that we're able to... Two things actually that I provide that's a little bit unique in the area is we do a pulse little tinnitus clinic that there's a lot of people that just really haven't been able to get that care. So we're able to provide that to them. And then also really acoustic neuromas, which is kind of like a specialized tumor. There's not a lot of them in the US, but I work very closely with the house clinic, which has been doing that for about 75 years. So we do a lot of those as well.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Learning about all these new things, as you constantly learning, where do you find the time to learn?

Zachary Barnard: Time is about efficiency. So people will always fit in what they have to do into the time that they have. So the key is to be efficient with every little thing that you do. So have ways for things to be put in front of you all the time. So just for the medical literature. So I get emails every Sunday night with all of the different taglines that bring up literature that I would want to read about. So I can quickly sift through all those and say, oh, okay, I want to look at this, want to look at that. This is going to be important. This is going to be practice changing, versus this is just something that somebody wrote and that doesn't really have too much consequence. It's all about being efficient in what you do in order to get stuff done.

Japhet De Oliveira: Now you're clearly a curious person, inquisitive, right? Is that something you've had for your entire life or something you cultivated?

Zachary Barnard: No, I've always been curious how things kind of work and how things go. I mean, I remember taking apart a telephone when I was a little kid. Of course it didn't get back together, but took it apart and we saw how things worked and I was always interested in that kind of stuff.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's great. Good. All right, where next then?

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 49.

Japhet De Oliveira: 49. All right. Oh, I don't know how you're picking these. Okay. What are you currently learning about and why?

Zachary Barnard: Currently learning about, I guess we'll switch a little bit to something new. I'm learning a lot more about finances. So this is something that we really don't teach people in the United States.

Japhet De Oliveira: That is true.

Zachary Barnard: It's just very interesting. I mean, you grew up through school, you got math, you got English, you got a little bit of social studies, science, all these things. But nobody teaches anybody about how a checkbook works. Not that anyone uses anymore, but how credit works, how the financial world works. And going through residency and going through medical school, you kind of push off those skills a little bit.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yes.

Zachary Barnard: So now we have debt to pay off, there's homes to pay off, all these things. And planning for children to go to school, which is much, much more expensive than when I went to college. Those kinds of things. And how do you financially plan for that? So it's something that I'm trying to learn a lot more about because it's just something we just don't know. We're just not taught that. So it's just interesting.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's really good. I like it. Yeah, it's very true. Very true. In many countries we're not taught that. No, it's great. All right, where next?

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 51.

Japhet De Oliveira: 51. Oh, tell us about something that you know you do differently than anybody else.

Zachary Barnard: Differently than anybody else?

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah.

Zachary Barnard: That's an interesting one. Surgically we do... So everyone has differences in cases that you do and everything like that. I would say there's surgeries that I do that are very different and doing those is interesting because it's not something that I really learned a lot during residency because we just didn't really do a lot of it. So really learning that technique and how to actually do that is really learning from what I do every single time. There's not really a lot to learn from the outside. So I'd say doing that differently than everybody else, that's a little bit different.

Japhet De Oliveira: Oh, I like that. That's good. Good. All right, where next, sir?

Zachary Barnard: Let's do 55.

Japhet De Oliveira: 55. All right. Oh, share about something that frightens you.

Zachary Barnard: I would say a constant fear is that something could always happen to someone in my family. So I see day in and day out people's families changed by something bad happening to somebody. And there's always that fear that something bad could happen to something in your family. So that's something you, I don't know, I just constantly hope doesn't happen, for sure.

Japhet De Oliveira: No, I hear you. I hear you. All right, good. Where next?

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 59.

Japhet De Oliveira: 59. In your opinion, what subject should they add to a school curriculum? What age would it be for? I wonder.

Zachary Barnard: Perfect.

Japhet De Oliveira: I wonder. Okay, go on.

Zachary Barnard: Segue.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, I know.

Zachary Barnard: We need to add financial education for kids. It just makes sense. I mean unfortunately our world revolves around finances. I mean, it's just the way it works. We're a capitalistic society, which means that's how people grow and everything like that is usually through financials. I think we really need to educate our kids, even when we're starting. I mean, we start with math and then you slowly move on to applied math, which is finance, economics, statistics. Everyone should be really learning all about that. It shouldn't be, hey, I majored in finance in college to learn much about it. I think that's important.

Japhet De Oliveira: That's good. In fact, we have time for two final numbers. So where would you want to go for your final two numbers? Can you believe that?

Zachary Barnard: Wow. Let's go to 79.

Japhet De Oliveira: 79. Oh, if you wouldn't mind, Zach, could you share a painful memory you wish you could forget?

Zachary Barnard: I would say, not necessarily forget, but my mom passed away from Alzheimer's when she was younger, and that's something where you don't want to forget about her, but you want to forget about the fact that something bad happened to her. So that's something that I would probably...

Japhet De Oliveira: Hopefully one day we'll find a cure.

Zachary Barnard: Exactly.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, that's very hard. It's very hard. All right, my friend, last number.

Zachary Barnard: Let's go to 99.

Japhet De Oliveira: 99. Oh, so what is the most difficult truth you've ever had to tell?

Zachary Barnard: The most difficult truth always is telling somebody and their family member that they're going to not make it. They're going to pass away. And you never want to have to tell somebody that, but you just have to and you have to do it in a way that you know they're going to hopefully absorb in an empathetic way and a way that can help them understand and potentially move forward in the future.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah. Zach, it has been a privilege to be able to talk to you. Thank you for your honesty. And I cannot imagine having to do those conversations, those hard conversations with people. And especially, I've heard so many great things about you. What an empathetic doctor you are and you take so much pride and care for your patients. So thank you for that as well. It's great.

Zachary Barnard: Well, I appreciate it.

Japhet De Oliveira: Yeah, I want to encourage people to do the same thing. Sit down with a friend, ask them good questions, listen to their story. We are changed by each other for that. We're changed for the better, so it's good. So God bless you and God bless all our listeners and we'll connect again soon.

Zachary Barnard: Well, I appreciate everything you did and thank you so much for having me.

Japhet De Oliveira: Absolutely. Thank you as well.

Narrator: Thank you for joining us for the Story & Experience Podcast. We invite you to read, watch, and submit your story and experience at adventisthealth.org/story. The Story & Experience Podcast was brought to you by Adventist Health through the Office of Culture.